[joeysteele]

Well I am one who is disgusted still at this govts response to this problem.

People who care about decency and I actually consider I do that, I would hate myself if I didn't in fact.
They and I have as much right to say how disillusioned I am and ashamed of the govts and some of my British fellow citizens cold and hardline attitude to these desperate people in turmoil and crisis.

Whether that means because I don't just follow like sheep a hardline uncaring govt and totally useless PMs inaction on this issue and therefore should go to another Country.
Well hey,that thought is indeed very appealing at this time for sure for me.

However,it is in the main, that loud minority,'IF' there is proof it is only a minority, that have in fact helped shame this PM into actually doing more that is more practical and right as to this crisis.

The measures he has announced are indeed welcome but to get applause from me he will need to soften his tone and do far more than this as ongoing into the far future.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well I am one who is disgusted still at this govts response to this problem.

People who care about decency and I actually consider I do that, I would hate myself if I didn't in fact.
They and I have as much right to say how disillusioned I am and ashamed of the govts and some of my British fellow citizens cold and hardline attitude to these desperate people in turmoil and crisis.

Whether that means because I don't just follow like sheep a hardline uncaring govt and totally useless PMs inaction on this issue and therefore should go to another Country.
Well hey,that thought is indeed very appealing at this time for sure for me.

However,it is in the main, that loud minority,'IF' there is proof it is only a minority, that have in fact helped shame this PM into actually doing more that is more practical and right as to this crisis.

The measures he has announced are indeed welcome but to get applause from me he will need to soften his tone and do far more than this as ongoing into the far future.

I consider myself to care about decency, joey. Also, I don't consider myself to be a "sheep". But with everything that's being done just isn't enough for some people. And really, if this is such a stinker of a country, why would you want to be associated with it? Personally, whatever government is in power, I believe the British people will do the right thing, which is endorsed by the sheer amount of cash that people have given, of their own free will, to aid people fleeing conflict. It would be nice, just once, to hear something positive about Britain instead of the same boring anti-government rhetoric.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I consider myself to care about decency, joey. Also, I don't consider myself to be a "sheep". But with everything that's being done just isn't enough for some people. And really, if this is such a stinker of a country, why would you want to be associated with it? Personally, whatever government is in power, I believe the British people will do the right thing, which is endorsed by the sheer amount of cash that people have given, of their own free will, to aid people fleeing conflict. It would be nice, just once, to hear something positive about Britain instead of the same boring anti-government rhetoric.

That is actually the question I am asking myself more and more,it may well be I decide to move on too,something this govt is making it more easier for me to really consider.
Not just as to this issue but on other areas of govt policy that I find abhorrent to all I totally believe in and would stand for.
That is not for this thread however.

I would hope the majority of British people as a whole will do the right thing and in the end 'demand' the right things are done in their name as to these refugees and people fleeing in terror from their original homeland.
I expect little or none of that 'right thing' without shaming them to do so however from this hardline govt that is still pathetically cowering and looking over its shoulders at the scapegoating views of refugees and immigrants being done by UKIP.

The positives about Britain for me, what made me proud to be British anyway,are fast being eroded by this present PM and govt,his terrible and procrastinated response to this refugee issue is just another highlight of the mans complete incompetence.
Even his own MPs are starting to demand more from him,these and the pressure of condemnations of his cold responses so far,are the only reasons he has now acted differently, although still way short of what he needs to be doing.
Way, way short in my view.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is actually the question I am asking myself more and more,it may well be I decide to move on too,something this govt is making it more easier for me to really consider.
Not just as to this issue but on other areas of govt policy that I find abhorrent to all I totally believe in and would stand for.
That is not for this thread however.

I would hope the majority of British people as a whole will do the right thing and in the end 'demand' the right things are done in their name as to these refugees and people fleeing in terror from their original homeland.
I expect little or none of that 'right thing' without shaming them to do so however from this hardline govt that is still pathetically cowering and looking over its shoulders at the scapegoating views of refugees and immigrants being done by UKIP.

The positives about Britain for me, what made me proud to be British anyway,are fast being eroded by this present PM and govt,his terrible and procrastinated response to this refugee issue is just another highlight of the mans complete incompetence.
Even his own MPs are starting to demand more from him,these and the pressure of condemnations of his cold responses so far,are the only reasons he has now acted differently, although still way short of what he needs to be doing.
Way, way short in my view.

Wonderful summary of how unbritish Britain actually is, we have been torn apart so as to be easier to mould, pitted against one another and now against the 'invaders'.
Regardless of our involvement it smacks of a colonialist attitude towards the 'savages' and that's what saddens me the most.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is actually the question I am asking myself more and more,it may well be I decide to move on too,something this govt is making it more easier for me to really consider.
Not just as to this issue but on other areas of govt policy that I find abhorrent to all I totally believe in and would stand for.
That is not for this thread however.

I would hope the majority of British people as a whole will do the right thing and in the end 'demand' the right things are done in their name as to these refugees and people fleeing in terror from their original homeland.
I expect little or none of that 'right thing' without shaming them to do so however from this hardline govt that is still pathetically cowering and looking over its shoulders at the scapegoating views of refugees and immigrants being done by UKIP.

The positives about Britain for me, what made me proud to be British anyway,are fast being eroded by this present PM and govt,his terrible and procrastinated response to this refugee issue is just another highlight of the mans complete incompetence.
Even his own MPs are starting to demand more from him,these and the pressure of condemnations of his cold responses so far,are the only reasons he has now acted differently, although still way short of what he needs to be doing.
Way, way short in my view.

That's some very evocative language there joey.

I can't see anyone here scapegoating genuine refugees. Should more have been done earlier? Well yes, of course. But that could be said of any country. I'm really tired of this whole "you're all horrible and cold" stance. My own family came here as refugees, genuine refugees. Were they let in with open arms? No. There was hell on in all quarters about the amount of Jews coming into the country. opposition to refugees is not something new, although some people seem to think the 30s and 40s was some magical time when Jews were let in and welcomed with open arms... it wasn't like that at all. There is far more done now for refugees than there ever was in the past.

I come from the East End, where there are more than anyone's fair share of refugees. I works for an FE college that recognised 130 languages, where those refugees were welcomed, taught English, taught a trade if they didn't have one or given academic English classes to follow their profession, all free. They were housed, given medical care and could live freely and without fear. Maybe there aren't a lot of refugees where you come from but there are a lot where I come from. Taking refugees isn't a new thing for us we've been doing it for a long time.

The thing that makes my heart sink is that some people don't recognise the good that this country does. Who was the first to land in Africa when the ebola crisis struck? The British army with field hospitals. Who is dragging refugees out of the water in the Med? The Royal Navy. Are they doing it because some people have shamed them? No.

Should we be doing more? Possibly... but we are just one of many and the UK is already the most densely populated country in Europe with a wealth of social problems including homelessness, poverty, an overstretched infrastructure... Germany have taken many more refugees than us because their birthrate has been falling year upon year.

No one here thinks genuine refugees should be turned away. Certainly not I.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's some very evocative language there joey.

I can't see anyone here scapegoating genuine refugees. Should more have been done earlier? Well yes, of course. But that could be said of any country. I'm really tired of this whole "you're all horrible and cold" stance. My own family came here as refugees, genuine refugees. Were they let in with open arms? No. There was hell on in all quarters about the amount of Jews coming into the country. opposition to refugees is not something new, although some people seem to think the 30s and 40s was some magical time when Jews were let in and welcomed with open arms... it wasn't like that at all. There is far more done now for refugees than there ever was in the past.

I come from the East End, where there are more than anyone's fair share of refugees. I works for an FE college that recognised 130 languages, where those refugees were welcomed, taught English, taught a trade if they didn't have one or given academic English classes to follow their profession, all free. They were housed, given medical care and could live freely and without fear. Maybe there aren't a lot of refugees where you come from but there are a lot where I come from. Taking refugees isn't a new thing for us we've been doing it for a long time.

The thing that makes my heart sink is that some people don't recognise the good that this country does. Who was the first to land in Africa when the ebola crisis struck? The British army with field hospitals. Who is dragging refugees out of the water in the Med? The Royal Navy. Are they doing it because some people have shamed them? No.

Should we be doing more? Possibly... but we are just one of many and the UK is already the most densely populated country in Europe with a wealth of social problems including homelessness, poverty, an overstretched infrastructure... Germany have taken many more refugees than us because their birthrate has been falling year upon year.

No one here thinks genuine refugees should be turned away. Certainly not I.

I'm sorry Liv, and do not want to be seen as obsequious just because we are friends, but I cannot help it - you post so eloquently and truthfully.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm sorry Liv, and do not want to be seen as obsequious just because we are friends, but I cannot help it - you post so eloquently and truthfully.

Much appreciated Kirk, thanks.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well I am one who is disgusted still at this govts response to this problem.

People who care about decency and I actually consider I do that, I would hate myself if I didn't in fact.
They and I have as much right to say how disillusioned I am and ashamed of the govts and some of my British fellow citizens cold and hardline attitude to these desperate people in turmoil and crisis.

Whether that means because I don't just follow like sheep a hardline uncaring govt and totally useless PMs inaction on this issue and therefore should go to another Country.
Well hey,that thought is indeed very appealing at this time for sure for me.

However,it is in the main, that loud minority,'IF' there is proof it is only a minority, that have in fact helped shame this PM into actually doing more that is more practical and right as to this crisis.

The measures he has announced are indeed welcome but to get applause from me he will need to soften his tone and do far more than this as ongoing into the far future.

are you just as furious at the tens of thousands of neglected brits dying from neglect in british hospitals and care homes? 25,000 people die of undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals each other, some people in wales wait 10 weeks for the result of scans and 18 months plus for operations? look at the Stafford abuses 1000+ died of thirst? or do you overlook at as its not a populist bandwagon ?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

are you just as furious at the tens of thousands of neglected brits dying from neglect in british hospitals and care homes? 25,000 people die of undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals each other, some people in wales wait 10 weeks for the result of scans and 18 months plus for operations? look at the Stafford abuses 1000+ died of thirst? or do you overlook at as its not a populist bandwagon ?

I get annoyed at al that goes wrong that should not and I blame the NHS and also the past govt too for the problems in some areas then and also this govt and the NHS hierarchy now for the problems occurring day after day still despite all that was learned before.

This thread is about the refugees, why do you always use almost every thread to get at the NHS.
No matter the topic of the thread.

I hate the abuse that goes on in care homes, no party in govt has done anywhere near enough to ensure the safety of loved ones in them and what is happening now in many is a disgrace too.

I hate cruelty, incompetence,injustice and political vindictiveness by govts in power with a passion and now,for me anyway, maybe not you and others,I see lots of pure spiteful and vindictiveness policy making by this govt already, since it astonishingly squeezed an overall majority for itself out of the demise of the Lib Dems only due to the affluent far South of England voters.

As to the right issue of this thread,the refugees crisis,and I'm not going to stay off topic as to it as you have tried to take the thread 'again', as in past threads.
I still say this govt has and is failing to do all the right things as to the refugees,so fearful is it of UKIP firing criticism for bringing more numbers to the UK.
That is a pathetic way to govern in a crisis and I have absolutely not a bit of faith in this PM to really ever do enough or even long term do the right thing as to the issue of these desperate people fleeing in terror too.

Had I been on here between 2005 and 2010,before the 2010 election,(I only joined in June 2010), I would have been hammering the Labour govt endlessly for its errors on the issues you raise, as much I am now hammering this rotten heartless bunch in the main of a govt.