[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Lets go over this again as I say I'm confused by your stance. Is SOP a broadcast of a religious ceremony? How is that not promoting that religion?

Because it's broadcasting a ceremony FOR Christians.

Anyone who is not a Christian or religious of any kind would likely not understand the majority of the mass and its meaning.

If it was means of advertising the religion in order to try and convert people to Christianity it would take a very different form.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I didn't contradict. SOP is about Christianity but is not promoting it.

In the same way Crimewatch is about crime but is not promoting it.

Very simple.



No it isn't. I don't see your point?
TV is filled with science based documentaries/shows that don't follow any religious/christian ideology and discuss things from scientific viewpoints.

Or do you require a TV show that is SPECIFICALLY and obviously anti-Christian to address the balance of Songs of Praise's shameless promotion?

I don't think you can compare Science shows to religion based shows. Science is based on facts, it's tangible and real. Religion is indoctrination. You can decide not to believe in Science but it exists regardless and is a vital part of our existence.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because it's broadcasting a ceremony FOR Christians.

Anyone who is not a Christian or religious of any kind would likely not understand the majority of the mass and its meaning.

If it was means of advertising the religion in order to try and convert people it would take a very different form.

Here is where we have to respectfully agree to disagree. I think it is a promotion of that religion and I dont want to see any kind of religious programming on my screen.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't think you can compare Science shows to religion based shows. Science is based on facts, it's tangible and real. Religion is indoctrination. You can decide not to believe in Science but it exists regardless and is a vital part of our existence.

But that's not the point being made in my post?

I'm talking about the balance of religious and science based shows on television. Regardless of how one feels about either, it's hardly as though the BBC are promoting Christianity and not providing any programming which may contradict Christian teachings within science or other based shows is it?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Here is where we have to respectfully agree to disagree. I think it is a promotion of that religion and I dont want to see any kind of religious programming on my screen.

How many times have you sat and watched Songs of Praise, out of interest?

I don't wish to see any kind of scripted reality programming on my television, so I simply do not put those programmes on. I have that freedom of choice. Leaving those who do like it to enjoy it at their will.

Why should Christians not be able to have such shows on TV simply because some people don't want to watch it?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How many times have you sat and watched Songs of Praise, out of interest?

I went to Sunday School till I was sixteen and my parents are quite religious. So more times than you think.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why should Christians not be able to have such shows on TV simply because some people don't want to watch it?

Why stop at Christians. Lets show all religious ceremonies on their respective Sabbaths or you don't show any.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Look, I really do not want to be dragged into futile argument with you again, or suffer further warnings and infractions as a result, but you are 'moving the goalposts' again, and I surely have a right to answer you.

No I am NOT suggesting that; "as the Labour party spends money on campaigning then they shouldn't advocate aiding those in poverty" and NOWHERE in my response to your post do I state ANYTHING which could cause any reasonable person to educe that.

I NEVER mentioned anything about 'the Labour Party advocating aiding those in poverty' or otherwise. SHOW ME WHERE I used any of those words or anything REMOTELY like them.

I DID NOT.

I was specifically responding to the question you posed in your post which I reproduce here:

"I wonder how much the production and ad time that message cost...
It begs the question with all the social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide how is this spend justified?"


Which means to me, that you were criticising the Christian Church and saying they could not justify spending that money on advertising when there was "so much social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide".

Now, I am a well advertised Christian, and you are a well advertised Labour supporter, so I simply answered your - pretty obviously rhetorical - question based on these two facts - which is why I confined my remarks to the Labour Party and no other parties. Here is my post in its entirety:

"The same way the Labour Party justifies spending tens of millions on advertising, which COULD be spent on alleviating the hardship and suffering of all those it purports to represent, but the question is frankly ridiculous.

The Christian church DOES carry out numerous and diverse good works of direct charity - from 'soup' kitchens in every town and city to various home and foreign charity projects.

I don't think I've ever seen a Labour Party 'soup' kitchen or any other specific charity projects paid for out of party funds -- which are collected from donations in the same exact manner which church funds are.

Apart from this, what is the difference?"

Now if you re-read my post you will see it is quite lucidly written and nowhere does it justify ANY of your summisations above. NOWHERE.

'I am a well advertised Christian, and you are a well advertised Labour supporter,'

So what.... I posed the question simply reapplying it to Labour does not answer me does it?
Can you compare a religious group to a political party too in fairness, what is it that makes them comparable?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How many times have you sat and watched Songs of Praise, out of interest?

I don't wish to see any kind of scripted reality programming on my television, so I simply do not put those programmes on. I have that freedom of choice. Leaving those who do like it to enjoy it at their will.

Why should Christians not be able to have such shows on TV simply because some people don't want to watch it?

No more to be said really Marsh and neither you nor Girth are ever going to agree, so better off scooting (as I'm now doing ) before this thread turns vinegar.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Why stop at Christians. Lets show all religious ceremonies on their respective Sabbaths or you don't show any.

Why all or nothing?

Are you operating under the assumption that they allow Songs of Praise but any other religions are banned?

Ask them why those places of worship don't film their own show.

The likeliest answer is probably that Christianity is the predominant religion of this country and shows about other religions would likely not have as many followers who would want to watch it in the UK.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'I am a well advertised Christian, and you are a well advertised Labour supporter,'

So what.... I posed the question simply reapplying it to Labour does not answer me does it?
Can you compare a religious group to a political party too in fairness, what is it that makes them comparable?

I think my posts are clear. Bye.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I went to Sunday School till I was sixteen and my parents are quite religious. So more times than you think.

So you think broadcasting a choir singing hymns is akin to an infomercial asking for new followers?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why all or nothing?

Are you operating under the assumption that they allow Songs of Praise but any other religions are banned?

Neither me or you know but I would imagine they could show other religious shows but I'd imagine there being some opposition to certain religious ceremonies being shown

Ask them why those places of worship don't film their own show.

The likeliest answer is probably that Christianity is the predominant religion of this country and shows about other religions would likely not have as many followers who would want to watch it in the UK.

And heres why.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But that's not the point being made in my post?

I'm talking about the balance of religious and science based shows on television. Regardless of how one feels about either, it's hardly as though the BBC are promoting Christianity and not providing any programming which may contradict Christian teachings within science or other based shows is it?

I'm just taking issue with the idea of the balance between the two. It never made much sense to me.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So you think broadcasting a choir singing hymns is akin to an infomercial asking for new followers?

I've no idea how you got that from my post.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Were you? That's nice. My point was more that you only ever seem to reply to me when you want to be pedantic or snide.

Not at all, I don't appreciate of being accused of being pedantic or snide for pointing out a double standard.... you have yourself used smiles in the way you objected to, you're doing it now.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm just taking issue with the idea of the balance between the two. It never made much sense to me.

There isn't. But IMO there doesn't need to be.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not at all, I don't appreciate of being accused of being pedantic or snide for pointing out a double standard.... you have yourself used smiles in the way you objected to, you're doing it now.

I'm not getting into another debate with you about assumptions made about what people post. It's repetitive and it's tiring.

You posted a thumb smiley and me responding with one is suddenly off limits? Ok Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think my posts are clear. Bye.

You're using the fact I'm a Labour supporter as a stick to beat me with, a political party can't be compared to a religion, it's really that simple.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I've no idea how you got that from my post.

Well if Songs of Praise is promoting Christianity then the link is obvious? Why else would it be promoted?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Neither me or you know but I would imagine they could show other religious shows but I'd imagine there being some opposition to certain religious ceremonies being shown

And heres why.

Personally, I don't think there'd be any opposition apart from extremists who don't represent the majority.

Not making a show because there's no audience for it is not really the same thing.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well if Songs of Praise is promoting Christianity then the link is obvious? Why else would it be promoted?

The post you quoted was about how often I watched SOP. I'm certain SOP is no ratings winner

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I'm not getting into another debate with you about assumptions made about what people post. It's repetitive and it's tiring.

You posted a thumb smiley and me responding with one is suddenly off limits? Ok Kizzy.

You posted the thumbs smile, I responded back with it to reinforce my point is all Marsh.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

The post you quoted was about how often I watched SOP. I'm certain SOP is no ratings winner

Yes, because I asked you how much of it you had watched to come to your views about how Songs of Praise is promo for Christianity.

I take it that it was your own viewing of the programme that led you to your conclusion? Therefore I was questioning what it was about the show that fell into "promotion".

I never said it was a "ratings winner" but it clearly has a loyal audience of Christians in this predominantly Christian country. Will there be many viewers for a show broadcasting a Buddhist mass in the UK, as an example? Doubtful.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Personally, I don't think there'd be any opposition apart from extremists who don't represent the majority.

Not making a show because there's no audience for it is not really the same thing.

I think if they moved SOP to say Wednesday night after the football highlights as opposed to Sunday there would be a huge outcry. I think there is a reasons why the show comes on a Sunday at about the same time as most churches do evening mass