[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Excellent post DR, you always do come up trumps with rational, reasoned and factual responses.
Anyone can say there has been little done and yet it should be acknowledged those that do wish for change are still fighting against the tide.
What else can one man do but garner support and raise awareness?

Thanks Kizzy, I've noticed that those who don't like Sanders have just him based on their Facebook friends.

I'd like to thank you for being a member of this forum that doesn't just go along with what their Facebook friends post. You seem to actually have the ability to think for yourself.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Excellent post DR, you always do come up trumps with rational, reasoned and factual responses.
Anyone can say there has been little done and yet it should be acknowledged those that do wish for change are still fighting against the tide.
What else can one man do but garner support and raise awareness?

What? Nothing you just said makes sense. Everything you just said seems like the OPPOSITE of the truth actually.

Are you being sarcastic?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by lostalex

it's not unfair at all, why didn't he put this ad out when he was fighting in majority white states Iowa and New Hampshire.... you don't think he's pandering to minorities that he is now putting this out right before he actually has to compete in states that have much larger racial minority populations?

he's obviously pandering to racial minorities just to get their votes. if he actually cared about minorities he would have been talking about these issues and making them the focus of his ads before now.

c'mon, don't be naive.

At least Hillary has been consistent for years now. Bernie sways with the wind.

It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do in the past. All that matters is that he's supporting the movement now. It's rather desperate and hypocritical to try to slate Bernie for not voicing his support for movements like BlackLivesMatter earlier when you often deny there's a problem with the police in the first place and have often blamed the black victims of Police Brutality in the past when threads have been made about it. Who are you to drag Bernie when you are happy enough to bury your head in the sand?

I think it's ridiculous to say that Hillary is consistent with her views, I do like her a lot and I'd love to see her in the White House if Bernie doesn't get the nod but she's been far more wishy washy than Bernie has ever been.

[Northern Monkey]

I think it's all **** tbh to get votes.
Choose a target electorate on an emotive issue.In this case black people and baboom.Votes votes votes.Imo.
It could be seen as using murder victims to further his political career.Imo.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do in the past. All that matters is that he's supporting the movement now. It's rather desperate and hypocritical to try to slate Bernie for not voicing his support for movements like BlackLivesMatter when you often deny there's a problem with the police in the first place and have often blamed the black victims of Police Brutality in the past when threads have been made about it. Who are you to drag Bernie when you are happy enough to bury your head in the sand?

I think it's ridiculous to say that Hillary is consistent with her views, I do like her a lot and I'd love to see her in the White House if Bernie doesn't get the nod but she's been far more wishy washy than Bernie has ever been.

what are you talking about? I've always said there is a huge issue with police brutality in the US, and the majority of victims of police brutality are WHITE, i said that it's not a race issue. I've never denied there is a serious issue with police brutality and police corruption and police accountability in the US though.

As far as Hillary being more "wishy washy" i think that's just because she's been under far more scrutiny than Bernie for the last 30 Years than Bernie has. had you ever heard of Bernie Sanders before last year? so obviously Hillary has been scrutinized more.

I don't know anyone that heard the name Bernie Sanders before last year, do you? but he's been in the Senate for 25 years//

what does that tell you about his leadership skills? he's been in the senate for 25 years and no one has ever heard of him before...???

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;8513990]What's the real reason you don't like this man then? Did you really know all about him? the things he'd done? what he'd achieved and tried to achieve? He's an American socialist but that makes him about as socialist as Thatcher.

I never said that I knew ALL about him, did I? I know ENOUGH about him from varied sources to form an opinion.

"American Socialist" is a meaningless term because the spectrum of degrees of 'Socialism' there is as wide as it is here.

"You're not? then why did you quote Alex's smear post and say, "Er....He once helped a black man get a Janitor's job?"


Alex's post is only a 'smear post' in YOUR opinion - NOT mine. Here it is:

Originally Posted by lostalex View Post
"he's not though... what has he done to "FIGHT" for them? he's been at one of the highest seats of power for 25 YEARS! what's he done to fight for them? and where are the results after 25 YEARS of this supposed "fighting"?

Now WHERE exactly is Alex's post a 'smear post'? He states FACTS and asks LEGITIMATE questions and I quoted it SPECIFICALLY because of these facts.

As for my little joke - I have already said to you that my post was slightly tongue-in-cheek and ever so slightly jocular.

That said - if he HAD actually helped a blackman to secure a janitor's job, that would be a marked improvement of anything else he has actually achieved on behalf of 'minorities' - DESPITE his always WELL PUBLICISED personal crusading on their behalf.

"So he's damned if he didn't and now he's damned cos he does...though so "

I don't understand the above based on what I wrote:

"I suspect the REAL reasons behind his embarrassing video appeal is nothing more than personal political survival, and though I was not aware of ALL which you post above, I am now even LESS enamoured of him, because some of the organisations who 'endorse' him are - in my opinion - highly suspect themselves, so now I think he is a seriously dangerous 'leftie' who, too readily it seems, ass-licks any ass just as long as it's gaining him personal credit."

The way I see it is BECAUSE he has not actually achieved ANYTHING of note for the minorities he professess to champion, then he should only be damned for doing nothing - so, really, he is only damned if he doesn't, because he hasn't.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think it's all **** tbh to get votes.
Choose a target electorate on an emotive issue.In this case black people and baboom.Votes votes votes.Imo.
It could be seen as using murder victims to further his political career.Imo.

At the risk of my turning green - Bang On Right Paul.

[bots]

its pretty obvious that it is a video trying to capture a particular vote. If he was known for championing that cause throughout his career, he would be able to list all the things he has championed/achieved in the past

If people are gullible enough to swallow it ... fair play to him

[Kizzy]

Nay sayers with a mix of halftruths and untruths, mockery and personal opinion based on very little?
Seems it's better to do nothing than attempt anything as it will be shot down then?
That's progressive...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

its pretty obvious that it is a video trying to capture a particular vote. If he was known for championing that cause throughout his career, he would be able to list all the things he has championed/achieved in the past

If people are gullible enough to swallow it ... fair play to him

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

At the risk of my turning green - Bang On Right Paul.

Green with envy at my amazing post or Green like the man himself Arista?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nay sayers with a mix of halftruths and untruths, mockery and personal opinion based on very little?
Seems it's better to do nothing than attempt anything as it will be shot down then?
That's progressive...

Are you the font of all knowledge now with the rest of us who have a different viewpoint speaking lies and half-truths and personal opinion based on very little?

It is NOT a question of 'it's better to do nothing' - Saunders has DONE NOTHING for minorities in over 25 years of being in a position of POWER and AUTHORITY when he has had the LEVERAGE to DO SOMETHING for them.

And just WHAT is he ATTEMPTING?

TALK is cheap and ACTIONS speak louder than words - so he can talk all he wants now that he WANTS something by return, but he has DONE NOTHING in 25 years, so forgive all of us cynics if we LAUGH OUT LOUD when he says he is GOING TO DO SOMETHING NOW.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what are you talking about? I've always said there is a huge issue with police brutality in the US, and the majority of victims of police brutality are WHITE, i said that it's not a race issue. I've never denied there is a serious issue with police brutality and police corruption and police accountability in the US though.

As far as Hillary being more "wishy washy" i think that's just because she's been under far more scrutiny than Bernie for the last 30 Years than Bernie has. had you ever heard of Bernie Sanders before last year? so obviously Hillary has been scrutinized more.

I don't know anyone that heard the name Bernie Sanders before last year, do you? but he's been in the Senate for 25 years//

what does that tell you about his leadership shills, he's been in the senate for 25 years and no one has ever heard of him before...???

No you haven't, usually when there's a thread about Police Brutality in America you become ultra defensive and you'll make posts slating the UK police in order to ignore the issue at hand.

I could reverse that last point back at you and question Hillary's Leadership skills based on the previous failed attempts at gaining the democratic nomination.

[lostalex]

Sanders supporters annoy the hell out of me, but really annoys me is that those same people who claim to be so liberal, they probably won't vote for Hillary in the ACTUAL election, and it's just so petty and pedantic, especially because we need to remember this same thing happened 8 years ago, everyone was worried that Hillary supporters wouldn't support Obama after the primary, but we did, Us hillary supporters did bite the bullet and made sure that Obama won, but now we are being treated like **** AGAIN! Hillary supporters have been **** on for 10 years, and i'm sick of playing nice.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

No you haven't, usually when there's a thread about Police Brutality in America you become ultra defensive and you'll make posts slating the UK police in order to ignore the issue at hand.

I could reverse that last point back at you and question Hillary's Leadership skills based on the previous failed attempts at gaining the democratic nomination.

you are totally wrong. in specific cases where the guy that was shot by police was obviously in the wrong, yes i point that out. but i've always said when talking about the general issue that police brutality and police training is an issue.

but of course when some people try to make a racial issue out of a black guy being a violent thug, of course i'm going to back the police on that.

making posts slating the UK police? are you joking? compared to the number of posts slating american police on here Dizzy, are you actually saying that I'M the one being unfair and biased???

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by lostalex

pathetic pandering to minorities.

Bernie has been in congress for 25 YEARS, what has he done to help black people? what has he done about police brutality??

If he couldn't get anything meaningful done in the last 25 years of power, why would you think he'd get anything done in the next 4 years??

He was a civil rights organiser in the 60's.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

He was a civil rights organiser in the 60's.

I've already pointed that out Girth, as well as being a civil rights campaigner throughout his entire career but its pointless. People who want to jump on the propaganda band wagon 'won't hear, can't hear' you. It doesn't matter how much evidence you bring up either because if the right said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I've already pointed that out Girth, as well as being a civil rights campaigner throughout his entire career but its pointless. People who want to jump on the propaganda band wagon 'won't hear, can't hear' you. It doesn't matter how much evidence you bring up either because if the right said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.

Youtube video

He also made this speech in 1988 to support of then presidential candidate Jesse Jackson.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think it's all **** tbh to get votes.
Choose a target electorate on an emotive issue.In this case black people and baboom.Votes votes votes.Imo.
It could be seen as using murder victims to further his political career.Imo.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

its pretty obvious that it is a video trying to capture a particular vote. If he was known for championing that cause throughout his career, he would be able to list all the things he has championed/achieved in the past

If people are gullible enough to swallow it ... fair play to him

In a nutshell...

If he was British people would be soooo much more cynical.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I've already pointed that out Girth, as well as being a civil rights campaigner throughout his entire career but its pointless. People who want to jump on the propaganda band wagon 'won't hear, can't hear' you. It doesn't matter how much evidence you bring up either because if the right said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.

I assume those people you're referring to is everyone who has a different opinion to your own.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I've already pointed that out Girth, as well as being a civil rights campaigner throughout his entire career but its pointless. People who want to jump on the propaganda band wagon 'won't hear, can't hear' you. It doesn't matter how much evidence you bring up either because if the right said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.

Totally, unless there are reformers out there campaigning for change how do things higher up the chain of command get done?
What can parliament here or congress there do without backing? Nothing.
He has used his position for leverage and has consistently advocated a fairer society.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Totally, unless there are reformers out there campaigning for change how do things higher up the chain of command get done?
What can parliament here or congress there do without backing? Nothing.
He has used his position for leverage and has consistently advocated a fairer society.

Agreed. His voting record on human rights issues is impeccable.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I assume those people you're referring to is everyone who has a different opinion to your own.

Never assume anything, presume it and run the risk of being wrong.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

I assume those people you're referring to is everyone who has a different opinion to your own.

No! just the people who decide the propaganda spin must be right and choose to ignore any real evidence. Its a bit like you telling me you're a lawyer, I have a right to believe you or not believe you, but if you give me evidence to back up your claim, I'd be a fool to suggest otherwise.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you are totally wrong. in specific cases where the guy that was shot by police was obviously in the wrong, yes i point that out. but i've always said when talking about the general issue that police brutality and police training is an issue.

but of course when some people try to make a racial issue out of a black guy being a violent thug, of course i'm going to back the police on that.

making posts slating the UK police? are you joking? compared to the number of posts slating american police on here Dizzy, are you actually saying that I'M the one being unfair and biased???

Nobody slates the US police, they comment on the story. It's always you that basically says 'YEAH WELL THE UK POLICE ARE BAD TOO SO TAKE THAT!' because you can't cope with the fact that the USA isn't the perfect country you think it is. No country is perfect.