[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Thankyou

But what has this got to do with the failure of multiculturalism?

There is no 'failure of multiculturalism'. You are missing the point. IS want multiculturalism to fail, it is written for you in plain sight right there.

By pandering to their wishes, you are exacerbating the problem.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Jack_

There is no 'failure of multiculturalism'. You are missing the point. IS want multiculturalism to fail, it is written for you in plain sight right there.

By pandering to their wishes, you are exacerbating the problem.

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

And ghettoisation and failure to integrate are fuelled by rejection. Exactly the sort of rejection that you are promoting by claiming that every terrorist incident is the fault of "failed multiculturalism".

You seem now to be suggesting that when people say "multiculturalism has failed!" they are saying that it has a chance of succeeding if more carefully and slowly implemented. THAT would be a perfectly level-headed and logical standpoint.

However, I see VERY LITTLE of that sentiment when I see people making these claims about failing multiculturalism. What they are saying is "No it never worked and can never work, get them all out, send them all home, don't let any more in". If that's not the intended message then the true message is being completely lost somewhere in the ham-fisted delivery... and as a result, it IS fuelling division, alienation, and from that, fuelling terrorism.

If what you mean is "Multiculturalism isn't being done properly" then take the time to say so and explain that instead of barking "FAILED!!!". It's lazy and it adds to the problem, rather than helping to solve it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has identified segregation and separatism as key issues behind the threat of Islamic extremism and called for a "shared national identity" to replace "the doctrine of state multiculturalism".

Speaking at the Munich Security Conference on 5 February, Cameron said that Western countries needed to confront extremism rather than pursue a "hands-off tolerance".

The UK prime minister said "the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation and failed to supply "a vision of society" to which people want to belong.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...sm-has-failed/

Oh is that why he referred to refugees as a 'swarm'? and sat back whilst the media made folk devils of the entire Muslim population?.... pfffft!

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But it has failed not due to to terrorism but due to it being uncontrolled and the fact that ghettoisation and failure to integrate.

Have you had a walk around east London or in Leicester or in Birmingham recently? Real multiculturalism is formed by societies not governments but if there are just too many coming in society cant cope.

and its not just me its our former PM who also agrees

LT you live in Scotland so I don't think you're well enough informed to tell people what east London and Birmingham are like.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Greg!

LT you live in Scotland so I don't think you're well enough informed to tell people what east London and Birmingham are like.

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

You Tell Him LT


Cheeky youngster on this Great Forum

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I lived 15 years in London and visited the East End ever other Saturday near as dammit so maybe apart from say Livia on Tibb I think I know that area pretty well

You need to know yourself gurl

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

[arista]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

Your in Scotland are you not?

Are you not Z?

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by arista

Your in Scotland are you not?

Are you not Z?

I am but I'm going off evidence to support my view. The vast majority of Londoners voted to stay in the EU which would suggest they don't think immigration is a huge problem

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

Well lucky that i did not claim to be an expert just someone who knows the area and saw it change dramatically in the short space of 15 years

luckily a BBC documentary was recently made about this

you can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07czw5k

The area has had an influx of 70,000 immigrants in the past 15 years. 73 per cent of the local population is now made up of ethnic minorities and Black British.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Visiting east London every other Saturday doesn't make you an expert on the area I'm afraid. I bet most people who live there now quite like the diversity

It used to be a wonderful place to live. Lots of people from all over the world, my maternal grandparents came to east London as refugees. But now, it's swung too far the opposite way. My home borough - Newham - was the first where incomers outnumbered the locals. Most east enders have moved to Essex and further afield. It is not the same place now. I urge you to watch the BBC documentary The Last Whites of the East End. Then you'll have a better understanding of what's happened.

And actually, LT has a pretty good knowledge of east London.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Well lucky that i did not claim to be an expert just someone who knows the area and saw it change dramatically in the short space of 15 years

luckily a BBC documentary was recently made about this

you can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07czw5k

The area has had an influx of 70,000 immigrants in the past 15 years. 73 per cent of the local population is now made up of ethnic minorities and Black British.

Originally Posted by Livia

It used to be a wonderful place to live. Lots of people from all over the world, my maternal grandparents came to east London as refugees. But now, it's swung too far the opposite way. My home borough - Newham - was the first where incomers outnumbered the locals. Most east enders have moved to Essex and further afield. It is not the same place now. I urge you to watch the BBC documentary The Last Whites of the East End. Then you'll have a better understanding of what's happened.

And actually, LT has a pretty good knowledge of east London.

you mean the propaganda fuelled crap trying to paint a picture of white flight in newham by filming scenes in an asian market miles away in whitechapel? the programme that featured a man complaining about immigrants when he was half black and a woman that said she'd be disappointed if her children didn't have relationships with white people. that's your source?

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gNA...ature=youtu.be

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

It used to be a wonderful place to live. Lots of people from all over the world, my maternal grandparents came to east London as refugees. But now, it's swung too far the opposite way. My home borough - Newham - was the first where incomers outnumbered the locals. Most east enders have moved to Essex and further afield. It is not the same place now. I urge you to watch the BBC documentary The Last Whites of the East End. Then you'll have a better understanding of what's happened.

And actually, LT has a pretty good knowledge of east London.

Originally Posted by Livia

You imply that the white indigenous people from east London are all intolerant. The fact is that London has always been multicultural. I worked at the local college where over 100 languages were recognised. My school had kids from all over the world. However, in the last ten years it's tipped the balance. More people came, more locals left... it's not the same place now. And no one asked them whether they wanted things to stay the same or to increase immigration. It's changed the whole culture, people who've been there for generations and mixed quite happily with other cultures - there were black people in what became Newham in Victorian times, the Royal Docks brought people in from all over - barely recognise the place. It doesn't make them xenophobes and it doesn't make them intolerant to feel that the balance has been tipped too far.

When I read the first post my immediate reaction was I doubt you're old enough to remember what the area was like before immigrants. I am certain you are younger than me and I can state I definitely do not remember what my town was like before immigrants moved in. I know this cuz my parents were those immigrants.

In the second post I see you're referring to an influx in the past ten years so that clears that up but one thing that bothers me is that I dont recall - in my area yours may be different - that things were so harmonious back then. I dont recall there was as much of an effort to fit in that I remember eg one of my friends that I went to school his mother never spoke a word of English in my presence. My recollection is that this country has always had issues with immigrants coming in its just now there are a different set of cultures at the focus of the issues.