[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are two answers to this really. If it is a process that is feasible without utterly destroying the country then yes it should be respected and we should move forward with that.

If however it turns out to be the case that it is practically impossible to make it happen, or impossible without knowingly destroying the country, then theres no "honour" in simply forging forward "because democracy". To be clear, I don't mean it being up for debate and some people thinking it will be bad, but rather it becoming straight up fact upon examination that untangling from the EU is all but impossible without creating a failed state.

In that case I would 100% blame the government of the time for offering a vote on something when they didn't even know if it would be possible to realistically make it happen.

Indeed. It is ****ing ridiculous that the vote went ahead without ANYONE knowing wtf would happen if it was out. Noone expected it, but even so, these things should be thought out beforehand. Its clear noone knows what to do given Cameron crapped his pants and left and May is stuttering on about it now. I think shes a bit crazy personally for choosing to take leadership while this steaming pile of shite is going on. Personally, I can see the only way we can continue to trade the way we do, is to allow freedom of movement aswell and I do think the Eu will stick to that. And if we do that, a lot of peoples reasons for voting out are no longer 'valid' as the majority (not all) voted because of immigration.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed. It is ****ing ridiculous that the vote went ahead without ANYONE knowing wtf would happen if it was out. Noone expected it, but even so, these things should be thought out beforehand. Its clear noone knows what to do given Cameron crapped his pants and left and May is stuttering on about it now. I think shes a bit crazy personally for choosing to take leadership while this steaming pile of shite is going on. Personally, I can see the only way we can continue to trade the way we do, is to allow freedom of movement aswell and I do think the Eu will stick to that. And if we do that, a lot of peoples reasons for voting out are no longer 'valid' as the majority (not all) voted because of immigration.

The crux of it is that no-one can read the future accurately, its only when you are actually in a situation that you know what the outcome would be. For example, on trade, no-one would entertain offering us a trade deal while we were still in europe.

There were so many lies coming out from both sides, both equally bad in my opinion, because any lie is a bad lie and they just shouldnt have done it.

The whole point about negotiation, is that you do so from a position of strength. We are in a strong position, and those in the EU can huff and puff as much as they like, but money talks. Also, by this time next year, France and Germany will both be under scrutiny by their people. There is a massive groundswell for limiting immigration throughout europe, so the people saying that's not negotiable now, may not be in a job at the point where we negotiate (Our negotiations will start from a 2 year minimum position) and even then, a deal could be struck to reduce immigration over 5, 10, 20 years ... who knows. The point being that the bluster coming from the EU at the moment is protectionism from people who are hanging on to jobs by the skin of their teeth. The world is changing, and the EU will need to move with the times.