[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not even vaguely how it works, though. Benefits scale with earned income so, no, a family of four with an income of say £16,000 would still be getting working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit bringing their total after-tax income to around £25500. Total for the same family with two unemployed adults would have been about £21000, now capped at £20000.

It scales in this way across the range of earned income so the idea that "hard working families" end up worse off than those not working is nonsense. The only way it could be even vaguely true is if the person working has absolutely massive travel costs.

I don't know TS, tbh, I've never been on benefits in my life. It just sounded a lot on paper.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I don't know TS, tbh, I've never been on benefits in my life. It just sounded a lot on paper.

£20k for a family is not a lot of money, sadly.

It's £1660 a month. Take off (easily) £600 for rent and £120 for Council Tax/water, household bills realistically another £150, that's £790. "Little" school costs (they're always wanting something) another £50, then throw in a little debt (because whilst it's avoidable, let's face it, most people have some and you can't just wish it away) so another £50 and you're at £690 a month, which is about £160 a week to support 4 people - £40 each for food, clothing, toiletries, travel...

You could just about scrape together an existence I guess but throw in an unexpected repair or emergency plumber callout and you're screwed. You're one bad week away from going under. That's without even considering little things that are sort of essential these days like TV license, mobile phone (even if it's a cheap one on pay as you go) etc.


Put it this way... without wanting to give away too many of my own details, we have a family of four and our monthly household income is almost double that figure. Slightly less rent (Scotland), slightly more debt (lulz) and we run a car which all things considered probably costs about £200 a month. We don't struggle and, being honest, we probably "waste" a fair bit on frivolous / spur of the moment things but hardly living it up.I have absolutely NO IDEA how we would survive if our income was cut in half. I literally don't think the math works out .

The absolute lowest "all things considered" income we've been on as a family was just under £22000, and that was with only one child (aged under 2 so very little expense)... and at that point we were struggling, badly. "Ripped jeans and holes in the shoes, raiding the change jar to scrape together £5" level bad. "£80 bill lands on the mat and it's panic stations" sort of bad.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

£20k for a family is not a lot of money, sadly.

It's £1660 a month. Take off (easily) £600 for rent and £120 for Council Tax/water, household bills realistically another £150, that's £790. "Little" school costs (they're always wanting something) another £50, then throw in a little debt (because whilst it's avoidable, let's face it, most people have some and you can't just wish it away) so another £50 and you're at £690 a month, which is about £160 a week to support 4 people - £40 each for food, clothing, toiletries, travel...

You could just about scrape together an existence I guess but throw in an unexpected repair or emergency plumber callout and you're screwed. You're one bad week away from going under. That's without even considering little things that are sort of essential these days like TV license, mobile phone (even if it's a cheap one on pay as you go) etc.


Put it this way... without wanting to give away too many of my own details, we have a family of four and our monthly household income is almost double that figure. Slightly less rent (Scotland), slightly more debt (lulz) and we run a car which all things considered probably costs about £200 a month. We don't struggle and, being honest, we probably "waste" a fair bit on frivolous / spur of the moment things but hardly living it up.I have absolutely NO IDEA how we would survive if our income was cut in half. I literally don't think the math works out .

The absolute lowest "all things considered" income we've been on as a family was just under £22000, and that was with only one child (aged under 2 so very little expense)... and at that point we were struggling, badly. "Ripped jeans and holes in the shoes, raiding the change jar to scrape together £5" level bad. "£80 bill lands on the mat and it's panic stations" sort of bad.

I know my working single parent sister in law is struggling to survive on about 10k a year atm after losing her job about 2 years ago when the company closed down. She got no severence as they went bust and there was some sort of swindle involved. So knowing what she is living on, 20k sounded a lot, more than I would have expected. We've lived on that amount in the past when I was an at home mum, before I started my business, and we lived just on hubby's salary. Fortunately we aren't in that position now.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I know my working single parent sister in law is struggling to survive on about 10k a year atm after losing her job about 2 years ago when the company closed down. She got no severence as they went bust and there was some sort of swindle involved. So knowing what she is living on, 20k sounded a lot, more than I would have expected.

Not meaning to be harsh but unless this figure doesn't include rent, or she is for some reason not claiming Tax Credits, then she is lying to you about her income.

A single mother of one "normal" (not disabled) child, working 16hrs per week at minimum wage, will be getting approx £12.5k in benefits and £5.5k take-home earnings totalling £18k.

If she works more hours than that, earns more than minimum wage, or has more than one child, then the total will be higher. If she is genuinely struggling by on £10k then she's not filled in a form in properly somewhere.

Unless she's simply not claiming anything out of some twisted/misplaced sense of "pride".

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not meaning to be harsh but unless this figure doesn't include rent, or she is for some reason not claiming Tax Credits, then she is lying to you about her income.

A single mother of one "normal" (not disabled) child, working 16hrs per week at minimum wage, will be getting approx £12.5k in benefits and £5.5k take-home earnings totalling £18k.

If she works more hours than that, earns more than minimum wage, or has more than one child, then the total will be higher. If she is genuinely struggling by on £10k then she's not filled in a form in properly somewhere.

Unless she's simply not claiming anything out of some twisted/misplaced sense of "pride".

I can only go by what I was told, maybe I'll talk to her and we can figure out if she is entitled to more. I know she's having a very hard time atm.

[Ammi]

..these cuts/caps are awful in the impact they'll have...even a much lower cut of £10 or so a week would have a huge impact on those who are unfortunate enough to have to claim benefits because their budgeting is so tight with no room for any amount to be less...I know for working people, it's a struggle with no salary increases but cost of living rising but this really is impacting on some of the most vulnerable in society...we have so many more ever increasing families in crises, those who desperately need help in their struggles and in lots of cases their crises developing and situations/issues from unemployment/loss of income and all of the emotional pressures and then their is no help their either in the help they need so pretty much in hopeless situations and being kicked everywhere and from every angle....and the thing as well is that it's taking every way whichever fro those most vulnerable because of not thinking things through themselves and making so many mistakes in the implementation of stuff that has been abandoned or changed or turned around so penalising for their own errors and failure to think through and implement properly because of their own cut backs...yes we need to do this and this and have this person and that person...and oh, well cut staff../oh no we might have to have a re-think....