[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not saying the EU isn't neoliberal. There's no denying they are, but whilst its forced neoliberal ideologies across the continent, Britain has been neoliberal since Thatcher. The Tories can't defend us from the European Union any more than the European Union can defend us from the Tories because they are both following the same ideologies.

Patrick West states in that article that the Tories had to get out of the EU because of the TTIP. Why then, was Cameron leading at the helm to push the TTIP through before Obama retired from office?

I have no idea what goes on in Cameron's head, other than self-interest of course, but as he is no longer part of government I no longer care.

Until recently I was not aware of Article 106 and the EUs desire to de-nationalise public services and put them up for private tender. As part of the EU that would apply to our NHS. How many others are not aware of this I wonder.

Whatever some choose to believe about the tories wanting to privatise the NHS, of which there is little evidence, I feel that being part of the EU would pose a far greater risk of that happening than it would under the tories.

Beware folks the EU is the devil in disguise. As the article says 'the EU's worship of corporate capitalism doesn't fit in with the cosy narrative of the European Union being a humane, fluffy liberal force for the good'.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I have no idea what goes on in Cameron's head, other than self-interest of course, but as he is no longer part of government I no longer care.

Until recently I was not aware of Article 106 and the EUs desire to de-nationalise public services and put them up for private tender. As part of the EU that would apply to our NHS. How many others are not aware of this I wonder.

I wrote about this extensively before the referendum.

Whatever some choose to believe about the tories wanting to privatise the NHS, of which there is little evidence, I feel that being part of the EU would pose a far greater risk of that happening than it would under the tories.

There is extensive evidence about the NHS being sold off but you have to look for it because as loud as the revelations are, the blues are experts at rolling the carpet over it.

Beware folks the EU is the devil in disguise. As the article says 'the EU's worship of corporate capitalism doesn't fit in with the cosy narrative of the European Union being a humane, fluffy liberal force for the good'.

[/QUOTE]
And neither does the Tory government who now want to hold hands with Trump and his trade deal http://labourlist.org/2017/01/trump-...nion-tell-may/

Collecting truths from the Tories about the NHS is like trying to find hens teeth.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I wrote about this extensively before the referendum.


There is extensive evidence about the NHS being sold off but you have to look for it because as loud as the revelations are, the blues are experts at rolling the carpet over it.

And neither does the Tory government who now want to hold hands with Trump and his trade deal http://labourlist.org/2017/01/trump-...nion-tell-may/

Collecting truths from the Tories about the NHS is like trying to find hens teeth.[/QUOTE]

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

It is inevitable as part of the EU Trade agreements if Britain remain in the EU and according to some very likely under the tories. As the former is pretty much a certainty - for those on here that use saving the NHS as a reason to stay in the EU is laughable - maybe they should read up a bit on TTIP, CETA and TiSA. Personally I would rather put my trust in the tories, as previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And neither does the Tory government who now want to hold hands with Trump and his trade deal http://labourlist.org/2017/01/trump-...nion-tell-may/

Collecting truths from the Tories about the NHS is like trying to find hens teeth.

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

It is inevitable as part of the EU Trade agreements if Britain remain in the EU and according to some very likely under the tories. As the former is pretty much a certainty - for those on here that use saving the NHS as a reason to stay in the EU is laughable - maybe they should read up a bit on TTIP, CETA and TiSA. Personally I would rather put my trust in the tories, as previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

I could flip that back at you, I can't believe the hypocrisy, ignorance or just plain blinkered arrogance of championing the tories corner when they have already all but privatised the NHS on the quiet already, the guy in charge wrote a book on it!

A quick search will show you Branson bought adult social care this year, which begs the question why were we asked to subsidise this via council tax?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I could flip that back at you, I can't believe the hypocrisy, ignorance or just plain blinkered arrogance of championing the tories corner when they have already all but privatised the NHS on the quiet already, the guy in charge wrote a book on it!

A quick search will show you Branson bought adult social care this year, which begs the question why were we asked to subsidise this via council tax?

The EU will privatise those services. You are aware of that I take it. So what does it have to do with leaving the EU or not.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The EU will privatise those services. You are aware of that I take it. So what does it have to do with leaving the EU or not.

They wouldn't have to it's already done :/

CETA is nothing to do with us btw, the others any member states government has the power to veto AFTER negotiotions... unlike brexit.
You are aware of this I take it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They wouldn't have to it's already done :/

CETA is nothing to do with us btw, the others any member states government has the power to veto AFTER negotiotions... unlike brexit.
You are aware of this I take it?

How is it already done - evidence? Social Services and the NHS are still publically funded.

Luckily for us Brexit is our get out clause. I wouldn't trust the EU further than I could throw them.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

Yes, so long as we have a Tory government.

As previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

Watch this space. I intend to regurgitate this post in a few years time.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

The EU is one big corporate giant but they aren't the one forcing the hand of the Tory government over the NHS. The Neoliberal EU makes privatization less painful but you still need a Neoliberal (Tory) disire to go ahead with something as big as this.