[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I wrote about this extensively before the referendum.


There is extensive evidence about the NHS being sold off but you have to look for it because as loud as the revelations are, the blues are experts at rolling the carpet over it.

And neither does the Tory government who now want to hold hands with Trump and his trade deal http://labourlist.org/2017/01/trump-...nion-tell-may/

Collecting truths from the Tories about the NHS is like trying to find hens teeth.[/QUOTE]

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

It is inevitable as part of the EU Trade agreements if Britain remain in the EU and according to some very likely under the tories. As the former is pretty much a certainty - for those on here that use saving the NHS as a reason to stay in the EU is laughable - maybe they should read up a bit on TTIP, CETA and TiSA. Personally I would rather put my trust in the tories, as previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And neither does the Tory government who now want to hold hands with Trump and his trade deal http://labourlist.org/2017/01/trump-...nion-tell-may/

Collecting truths from the Tories about the NHS is like trying to find hens teeth.

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

It is inevitable as part of the EU Trade agreements if Britain remain in the EU and according to some very likely under the tories. As the former is pretty much a certainty - for those on here that use saving the NHS as a reason to stay in the EU is laughable - maybe they should read up a bit on TTIP, CETA and TiSA. Personally I would rather put my trust in the tories, as previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

I could flip that back at you, I can't believe the hypocrisy, ignorance or just plain blinkered arrogance of championing the tories corner when they have already all but privatised the NHS on the quiet already, the guy in charge wrote a book on it!

A quick search will show you Branson bought adult social care this year, which begs the question why were we asked to subsidise this via council tax?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I could flip that back at you, I can't believe the hypocrisy, ignorance or just plain blinkered arrogance of championing the tories corner when they have already all but privatised the NHS on the quiet already, the guy in charge wrote a book on it!

A quick search will show you Branson bought adult social care this year, which begs the question why were we asked to subsidise this via council tax?

The EU will privatise those services. You are aware of that I take it. So what does it have to do with leaving the EU or not.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The EU will privatise those services. You are aware of that I take it. So what does it have to do with leaving the EU or not.

They wouldn't have to it's already done :/

CETA is nothing to do with us btw, the others any member states government has the power to veto AFTER negotiotions... unlike brexit.
You are aware of this I take it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They wouldn't have to it's already done :/

CETA is nothing to do with us btw, the others any member states government has the power to veto AFTER negotiotions... unlike brexit.
You are aware of this I take it?

How is it already done - evidence? Social Services and the NHS are still publically funded.

Luckily for us Brexit is our get out clause. I wouldn't trust the EU further than I could throw them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

How is it already done - evidence? Social Services and the NHS are still publically funded.

Luckily for us Brexit is our get out clause. I wouldn't trust the EU further than I could throw them.

Huge chunks, the most lucrative services were sold off, which is why the NHS went from being in the black to being in the red during the term of the last 2 parliaments.

As I stated Branson just snaffled adult social care in the midlands , a quick search will show you how deep the rot goes.

With the tories in charge brexit is a noose and nothing else.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Huge chunks, the most lucrative services were sold off, which is why the NHS went from being in the black to being in the red during the term of the last 2 parliaments.

As I stated Branson just snaffled adult social care in the midlands , a quick search will show you how deep the rot goes.

With the tories in charge brexit is a noose and nothing else.

Well as it seems obvious our NHS is doomed in or out, the NHS clearly has nothing to do with Brexit. As Corbyn would negotiate a Brexit that would cause us many other problems I would still still opt for the Tories.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

How is it already done - evidence? Social Services and the NHS are still publically funded.

And there was me thinking the sell off was common knowledge.

Whilst you may believe nothing has changed because we still get free health treatment at the point of delivery. The truth is, Foundation Trusts and most GP practices are now semi-independent business models. That means they are privately owned.

The way the government got away with this (and we are talking from Thatcher, through New Labour to now) is, they started to under invest to the point where the NHS started under performing. The government could then start claiming the NHS is no longer affordable/viable and desperately needs modernizing. This smear campaign, the brain child of Thatcher and Ken Clarke has worked magnificently.

The 2012 Health and Social Care Act removes the Government’s responsibility for the NHS, passing it down to a series of other bodies instead. Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) are forced to open contracts to unlimited privatisation. Private companies are “cherry-picking” lucrative contracts leaving NHS trusts with even less money. CCGs are set to be privatised. It is difficult to believe but CCGs are now legally obliged to provide only emergency care and ambulances; the rest is up to their discretion. This translates into unlimited rationing. See here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10474075.html

So how does this end. Our health service will have clinical commissioning groups acting as insurance pools, buying care from private companies. The NHS will become a state insurer along the lines of Medicare in the US.
We are nearing the point of losing universal healthcare for each and every one of us. Bit by bit we will be told that certain extras are no longer free and we will be offered a cheap (to begin with) insurance to cover those extras. Slowly but surely, that list will get bigger.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And there was me thinking the sell off was common knowledge.

Whilst you may believe nothing has changed because we still get free health treatment at the point of delivery. The truth is, Foundation Trusts and most GP practices are now semi-independent business models. That means they are privately owned.

The way the government got away with this (and we are talking from Thatcher, through New Labour to now) is, they started to under invest to the point where the NHS started under performing. The government could then start claiming the NHS is no longer affordable/viable and desperately needs modernizing. This smear campaign, the brain child of Thatcher and Ken Clarke has worked magnificently.

The 2012 Health and Social Care Act removes the Government’s responsibility for the NHS, passing it down to a series of other bodies instead. Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) are forced to open contracts to unlimited privatisation. Private companies are “cherry-picking” lucrative contracts leaving NHS trusts with even less money. CCGs are set to be privatised. It is difficult to believe but CCGs are now legally obliged to provide only emergency care and ambulances; the rest is up to their discretion. This translates into unlimited rationing. See here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10474075.html

So how does this end. Our health service will have clinical commissioning groups acting as insurance pools, buying care from private companies. The NHS will become a state insurer along the lines of Medicare in the US.
We are nearing the point of losing universal healthcare for each and every one of us. Bit by bit we will be told that certain extras are no longer free and we will be offered a cheap (to begin with) insurance to cover those extras. Slowly but surely, that list will get bigger.

That sounds very much the same as the EU plan to do - and personally I would rather have no NHS outside of Europe than inside.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If that is the case then it it is a foregone conclusion that privatisation of the NHS will occur in or out of the EU.

Yes, so long as we have a Tory government.

As previously mentioned it would be electoral suicide for them to privatise the NHS, than trust the EU with all their 'secret' negotiations.

Watch this space. I intend to regurgitate this post in a few years time.

I really can't believe the hypocrisy, or ignorance, of those who shout very loudly about staying in the EU but then harp on equally as loudly about protecting our NHS. We can't have both.

The EU is one big corporate giant but they aren't the one forcing the hand of the Tory government over the NHS. The Neoliberal EU makes privatization less painful but you still need a Neoliberal (Tory) disire to go ahead with something as big as this.