[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you assume most tories are FOR hunting. I would disagree as most tories are not upper-class toffs. You are living in the past.

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

[joeysteele]

P

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

I really have no connection or understanding towards anyone who supports this horrible activity.
I can't grasp why any animal lover would want to even risk in any way this coming back.
You have really surprised me on this Kazanne.
I'm quite stunned.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

It is very rare for people to agree with everything a political party proposes or believes - people usually vote on the principles they support overall. I personally don't support fox hunting, I even wrote an essay against it in my English exam many years ago. I hate it. But I believe you cannot vote against a party you believe would be best for the future of billions of people based on one issue.

I also have faith in human decency and that most would be against such a barbaric sport in this day and age. You cannot let emotions cloud your judgement in the bigger scheme of things.

If it were to be brought back we would have to give her a hard time about it and campaign our socks off and make sure she realised the possibly of a second-term for her could seriously be in doubt if she didn't ban it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How would foxes vote on this if they could

Well... they're British foxes so if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that they would vote heavily in favour of the hunt, clap and cheer about everything hunt related, watch other foxes being ripped to shreds and sigh and say - "Well he should have run faster then!"

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If it were to be brought back we would have to give her a hard time about it and campaign our socks off and make sure she realised the possibly of a second-term for her could seriously be in doubt if she didn't ban it.

Are you saying we should protest? You're nothing but a Foxmoaner! Disrespecting democracy!

Crush the saboteur!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well... they're British foxes so if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that they would vote heavily in favour of the hunt, clap and cheer about everything hunt related, watch other foxes being ripped to shreds and sigh and say - "Well he should have run faster then!"



Are you saying we should protest? You're nothing but a Foxmoaner! Disrespecting democracy!

Crush the saboteur!

Really strong points,sad as well.

Protesting after the Cons are given the chance to legalise this again and they subsequently then do as I strongly predict.
That will result in nothing, it will be back,legalised and the Cons would never hold a vote on this again.

Labour or no other party for that matter are likely to ever get the large majority needed to overturn it again,to be able to again defeat Con support for foxhunting with hounds.

If anyone really hates this,what many Cons and May would even call sport,and then votes to give her the chance to hold this vote at all.
Their crocodile tears when the vote is won,as it will be,will be meaningless.
They will have helped support it coming back and cannot say they weren't adequately warned that it will be legalised,by their Conservative govt again.

[DemolitionRed]

Her campaign strategy is so risky that I suspect she might not want to win the election.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

P

Kazanne,if this was Labour or Lib Dems or even UKIP proposing any kind of vote on this to be legalised,you would be ripping into them big-time.
Oddly enough so would I but I would never give my vote to anyone,advocating this,not a chance.

Because to me how others think about and treat animals,(which whatever the reasons of the human race, I see humans as should be the guardians of animal welfare),reveals to me their likely thinking, not only to animals but anything or anyone seen to be weaker than them.

This is the Conservative party proposing this vote,Labour had to get a massive majority to be able to ensure,again in a freevote getting foxhunting banned,in order to see off Conservative opposition to any ban.

You can justify the Cons all you like and find excuses to exonerate her and her Party who support this barbarism.
You go ahead and believe this would be voted down,Cons after a.good election,support their leader.
She and her Party overall want a vote on this,she strongly supports it.
You delude yourself that even in a freevote,Con MPs will not give her what she wants.
I am not deluded what will be the outcome,she will get it legalised for that powerful hunt lobby that supports her and the Con party,who also donate to the Cons too.

How would foxes vote on this if they could,would they trust anyone or Party who had never ever held a vote to ban it in the past,who thought it a bad idea anyway to ban it a few years ago.
I am sure I know the answer and they would not be voting for or trusting Mrs May and her followers to champion these hunts back.

Mrs May does not after this election,expect now to on anything lose any votes in Parliament that 'she' supports.
She will win this vote and once you have helped elect her with a greater majority,and she gets the win to legalise this again, you cannot then complain about it or change that you helped her do it.
I'm personally glad that is something I will never take the slightest risk on for sure.

There's not a scrap of decency in anyone that wants to use her power to even just think of bringing foxhunting back never mind hold a vote to do so too.
A vote,since she hates losing anything,she would not even be proposing if she felt there was any chance she'd lose it.
She knows she won't,I am 100% sure.she won't lose either,not with a greatly increased Conservative majority of MPs.

You carry on finding excuses for her, to me she is no better than the truly cruel and awful people who organise and ride out in these barbaric cruel hunts.
Shows her heartless mind as to her thinking for me.

I really have no connection or understanding towards anyone who supports this horrible activity.
I can't grasp why any animal lover would want to even risk in any way this coming back.
You have really surprised me on this Kazanne.
I'm quite stunned.

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.

I came across a rather big fox one evening fairly recently that had been run over by a car and couldn't move its rear end. It was horrible as it had managed to fall off the path and into the road with cars and buses coming directly at it.

A group of us stood there waving at the traffic to go around it as it was still Alive and conscious at that point. After a while a car did run over its rail at one point but there was no response from the fox'. Sadly, but for the best, it had died. At least it wasn't its fate to suffer the same experience again. I will never forget it - my eyes well up every time I think about it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I came across a rather big fox one evening fairly recently that had been run over by a car and couldn't move its rear end. It was horrible as it had managed to fall off the path and into the road with cars and buses coming directly at it.

A group of us stood there waving at the traffic to go around it as it was still Alive and conscious at that point. After a while a car did run over its rail at one point but there was no response from the fox'. Sadly, but for the best, it had died. At least it wasn't its fate to suffer the same experience again. I will never forget it - my eyes well up every time I think about it.

I used to have a fox who would sit outside my front door of an evening waiting for scraps, she just disappeared one evening I expect something like this happened her, although she was quite old as well

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I used to have a fox who would sit outside my front door of an evening waiting for scraps, she just disappeared one evening I expect something like this happened her, although she was quite old as well

The not knowing is awful. You can't help think the worse.

It's one reason why I won't get a cat, much as I like them, I couldn't handle it disappearing and never knowing what had happened to it which I understand is not uncommon.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I came across a rather big fox one evening fairly recently that had been run over by a car and couldn't move its rear end. It was horrible as it had managed to fall off the path and into the road with cars and buses coming directly at it.

A group of us stood there waving at the traffic to go around it as it was still Alive and conscious at that point. After a while a car did run over its rail at one point but there was no response from the fox'. Sadly, but for the best, it had died. At least it wasn't its fate to suffer the same experience again. I will never forget it - my eyes well up every time I think about it.

Beautiful animals Brillo,that is a sad storyI don't think many condone fox hunting tbh.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

Fox hunting will not be made legal until the Tory government win this election... not before.

I agree about people from all walks of life, regardless of their political thinking, enjoying fox hunting.

There are still activists keeping a very close eye on legal fox hunters and insuring they don't do anything illegal but those who go out lamping, "illegal fox hunters", they are no different to illegal poachers.

When you say, Labour banned it but aren't keeping a proper eye on the enforcement, Labour are not the party in power. The only top down (on things like illegal fox hunting) we presently have is the Conservative government.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You have nothing to be stunned about Joey ,I have said several times that I will not be voting for her should this barbaric sport be brought back,why would I ? I adore animals,I maybe worded my post wrong,I was just pointing out that it is not just Tories who partake in this 'sport' it is people from all walks of life,yes labour toffs aswell,I have never ever said I supported it and never will.Plus although it is illegal,people are STILL doing it and stupid people go and watch.Where are the police when it is being carried out? Labour may have banned it,but they havent really made sure the people that partake still,are brought to book.Fox hunts still take place,always have,so without proper fines and policing it was a pointless law anyway.send them to prison for a stint,they might get the message then.

How can Labour make sure the law is upheld,they brought the ban in around 2005.
They have not been the govt.for the last 7 years,why have your Cons not made the Police enforce this.
I'll tell you why,because the Cons are in principle against the ban,so will not make sure it's enforced.
Hence now bringing it back.

Perhaps had Labour won in 2010 or 2015 and when it was clear these hunt organisers could get away with illegally flouting the ban,then Labour could be asked why they were able to get away with that.

People who love animals should be grateful Labour brought the ban in,in the first place.
Rather than not get at the Con led govts of the last 7 years,who have let their supporters/friends/donaters in these hunts get-away with breaking the law.

They won't be breaking any law once she holds this vote and it's legalised again.
Why does only the Con party advocate legalising this again.
That's the question people would be better asking.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How can Labour make sure the law is upheld,they brought the ban in around 2005.
They have not been the govt.for the last 7 years,why have your Cons not made the Police enforce this.
I'll tell you why,because the Cons are in principle against the ban,so will not make sure it's enforced.
Hence now bringing it back.

Perhaps had Labour won in 2010 or 2015 and when it was clear these hunt organisers could get away with illegally flouting the ban,then Labour could be asked why they were able to get away with that.

People who love animals should be grateful Labour brought the ban in,in the first place.
Rather than not get at the Con led govts of the last 7 years,who have let their supporters/friends/donaters in these hunts get-away with breaking the law.

They won't be breaking any law once she holds this vote and it's legalised again.
Why does only the Con party advocate legalising this again.
That's the question people would be better asking.

Labour banned it so should have enforced it more,it should have been slammed down on as soon as the 'toffs' started to flout the law. I agree any government that were in power after then should also have enforced it,so to me,Labour did so well banning it,but let us all down again by not enforcing it,We know Conservatives failed to do so,but Labour kinda failed too,even if Labour get in again,they wont bother too much with this law,it will still go on.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Labour banned it so should have enforced it more,it should have been slammed down on as soon as the 'toffs' started to flout the law. I agree any government that were in power after then should also have enforced it,so to me,Labour did so well banning it,but let us all down again by not enforcing it,We know Conservatives failed to do so,but Labour kinda failed too,even if Labour get in again,they wont bother too much with this law,it will still go on.

Unbelievable,Labour bring the ban in but should have dealt with people who would break the law.
So it's their fault these jumped up sick huntspeople don't respect laws.

Labour were bothered enough to ban it in the first place despite Conservative opposition to a ban.

You let the Cons off again, this is one area of lawbreaking the Conservatives are not bothered about.
The ban has been in place around 12 years,the Cons have been in govt.for over 7 of those years,and allowed the law to be broken.
Not the Labour party or any other party.

Now these want to legalise it again and you will get at Labour and find ways to excuse the Cons who have not pursued their 'friends' breaking this law.
How on earth do you know Labour would not have tightened this law up had they stayed in power,after getting reports of repeated lawbreaking as to it.

Now the Cons again show their true colours on this and will vote to bring it back.
Yet this is Labour's fault.
For crying out loud.
Really I give up.I really do.
Unbelievable.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Unbelievable,Labour bring the ban in but should have dealt with people who would break the law.
So it's their fault these jumped up sick huntspeople don't respect laws.

Labour were bothered enough to ban it in the first place despite Conservative opposition to a ban.

You let the Cons off again, this is one area of lawbreaking the Conservatives are not bothered about.
The ban has been in place around 12 years,the Cons have been in govt.for over 7 of those years,and allowed the law to be broken.
Not the Labour party or any other party.

Now these want to legalise it again and you will get at Labour and find ways to excuse the Cons who have not pursued their 'friends' breaking this law.
How on earth do you know Labour would not have tightened this law up had they stayed in power,after getting reports of repeated lawbreaking as to it.

Now the Cons again show their true colours on this and will vote to bring it back.
Yet this is Labour's fault.
For crying out loud.
Really I give up.I really do.
Unbelievable.

I meant Joey that those three years labour were still in power,fox hunting was still going on,there was no punishments as such, IF they had enforced it better maybe by the time the Tories got in people may have thought twice about doing it,I am not letting the Tories off the hook,they failed too,I just think while labour banned it and were still in power they still let people break the law.they had 3 years to follow it up,they failed,so have left the field open for the vote to bring it back,that is all,I am trying to say .You bring a law in,you damn well make sure that law is respected and adhered to otherwise no one will take it seriously,it shouldn't be up for debate,it is abhorrent,but so are a lot of things humans call entertainment which all includes cruelty to animals.that's the human race for you.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you assume most tories are FOR hunting. I would disagree as most tories are not upper-class toffs. You are living in the past.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is true, plus people from ALL the parties partake in the 'sport' and none of the other leaders of the parties are poor either,people who think Tories are all rich are deluded,they are no different than any other party running,yes they like to reward those who work hard (nothing wrong with that) rather that than encouraging people to not bother. maybe people should show the same passion for the likes of the Liberal Democrat leader who is against abortion,taking away a womans right.

Sorry, at what point in my OP did I make any assumptions either about who partakes in fox hunting, or what the socio-economic status of Tory voters is? I have made two posts in this thread and neither made any such comment or assumption, I merely posted the sources and let the debate begin. Honestly, does anyone on this forum actually read posts before they respond to them?