[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I see the point you're making (and I definitely agree re. putting fodder through to the lives in the first place, though I think this is the best bunch of finalists for a while) but my use of Grace and Holly as examples was less about them being culled over dull boys a la any other year, and more just because they're the favourites, you could swap them for whoever you like really - the same point would still apply. You could lose the favourites to fodder in any category, just because of a rule whereby someone from each category must leave. What if the three favourites were in one category? It's nonsense.

Then all three of those aren't going to win anyway. That's my point.

It's all about one winner, so whether Favourite A is knocked out by Favourite B in the final 2 or a few weeks beforehand is neither here nor there.

And, yes, I see the argument that a final with both of those favourites in it would be better than one of them versus a floater who slipped through in a fairly crappy category, that's where my point about the overall lack of quality control across the whole show crops up.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by lewis111

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

This. It’s going to happen, and it’s going to be horrible. If the 4 girls are best then the 4 girls deserve to stay the longest.

It’s also annoying that they’ll put specific categories together to try and get the acts they want furthest. I’ll put money on the groups & girls being on separate nights

[Withano]

Originally Posted by lewis111

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

Yeah I agree. I hated s1 of the voice for this reason.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Then all three of those aren't going to win anyway. That's my point.

It's all about one winner, so whether Favourite A is knocked out by Favourite B in the final 2 or a few weeks beforehand is neither here nor there.

And, yes, I see the argument that a final with both of those favourites in it would be better than one of them versus a floater who slipped through in a fairly crappy category, that's where my point about the overall lack of quality control across the whole show crops up.

Think 2011. Janet was the winner, so you could’ve just assumed by week 6 Janet will win - what’s the difference in 6 or 10 shows?
But Little Mix happened. They only happened because of the 10 weeks... nobody saw that happening at the start of the shows. The whole problem with this new format is unfair eliminations with no time for acts to grow. Not about one clear winner, or they may as well just crown the winner on week one going by what you’re saying

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

Think 2011. Janet was the winner, so you could’ve just assumed by week 6 Janet will win - what’s the difference in 6 or 10 shows?
But Little Mix happened. They only happened because of the 10 weeks... nobody saw that happening at the start of the shows. The whole problem with this new format is unfair eliminations with no time for acts to grow. Not about one clear winner, or they may as well just crown the winner on week one going by what you’re saying

That's not my point though.

That's the only criticism I agree with, the length. The new format doesn't allow enough time for acts to progress and build up fanbases.

The order in which the acts leave the competition, IMO, is the least of its problems.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's not my point though.

That's the only criticism I agree with, the length. The new format doesn't allow enough time for acts to progress and build up fanbases.

The order in which the acts leave the competition, IMO, is the least of its problems.

but the order is affected by the time

If they do double eliminations week one and then singles on week 2, there will have been 6 eliminations this year while the acts will have only performed twice. Let them all perform 6 times before eliminating them and the order could be completely different....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

This. It’s going to happen, and it’s going to be horrible. If the 4 girls are best then the 4 girls deserve to stay the longest.

It’s also annoying that they’ll put specific categories together to try and get the acts they want furthest. I’ll put money on the groups & girls being on separate nights

Why would they purposely want to push the worst acts furthest?

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why would they purposely want to push the worst acts furthest?

If the producers favourites are a group and a girl, they won’t put them on the same night because that’ll mean one has to go. So they’ll put them separate in the hope that an over and boy will go instead

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

but the order is affected by the time

If they do double eliminations week one and then singles on week 2, there will have been 6 eliminations this year while the acts will have only performed twice. Let them all perform 6 times before eliminating them and the order could be completely different....

Yes, however if they eliminated one from each category on alternating weeks then the length of the live shows would remain the same AND they would reduce the categories at the same rate.

Culling them quickly and regularly is the issue, not the eliminating them category by category. That's exactly how they narrow down the 1000s of applicants down to the live show cast as it is anyway.

And if we have a case of a talentless no hoper floating through to the top 5 then they should've thought about that at Bootcamp when putting that floater into their final selections.

Nobody at this stage of the competition should be bad. Everybody will like different acts dependent on taste and preference, but they should all be good.

[Amy Jade]

I hate that there is no sing off, some of my favourite XF moments have been from sing offs

Ruth singing Purple Rain and Knocking on Heavens Door

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

If the producers favourites are a group and a girl, they won’t put them on the same night because that’ll mean one has to go. So they’ll put them separate in the hope that an over and boy will go instead

Why would one HAVE to go? Presumably, the rest of their categories are performing too? And if they would easily survive elimination against the other acts in their category then they're going to fly through the first stages regardless?

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why would one HAVE to go? Presumably, the rest of their categories are performing too? And if they would easily survive elimination against the other acts in their category then they're going to fly through the first stages regardless?

Because sometimes the producers don’t want to let acts go even though they’re likely to go

It’s like how they gave Honey G the pimp slot on live shows to boost her chances of survival.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

Because sometimes the producers don’t want to let acts go even though they’re likely to go

It’s like how they gave Honey G the pimp slot on live shows to boost her chances of survival.

That's a completely different debate IMO.

I can see the argument about the order in which acts perform and who sticks out in audiences memory when the vote opens. BUT when it comes to the joke acts, if they're getting voted through week after week it's going to happen regardless of slot. IMO.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's a completely different debate IMO.

I can see the argument about the order in which acts perform and who sticks out in audiences memory when the vote opens. BUT when it comes to the joke acts, if they're getting voted through week after week it's going to happen regardless of slot. IMO.

But it won’t happen if they put the overs on the same night as the boys knowing the boys will get more votes while the groups might not have....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

But it won’t happen if they put the overs on the same night as the boys knowing the boys will get more votes while the groups might not have....

But if one boy and one group is going then the least popular boy and least popular group is going anyway regardless of the others?

The competition will be within their own categories, rather than outside, until the final 4.

Would whoever is deemed least popular in each category really change if you swapped out which category they were grouped with?

To illustrate, if all the boys are more popular than all the groups so the overall voting is...
1. Boy 1
2. Boy 2
3. Boy 3
4. Boy 4
5. Group 1
6. Group 2
7. Group 3
8. Group 4

Then Boy 4 and Group 4 are both leaving that night.
If you then paired those categories with another category where the voting is more mixed so you get results like...

1. Boy 1
2. Girl 1
3. Boy 2
4. Boy 3
5. Girl 2
6. Girl 3
7. Girl 4
8. Boy 4

Then "Boy 4" has a difference of 4 places, BUT he's eliminated anyway because he remains the least popular of his category?

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But if one boy and one group is going then the least popular boy and least popular group is going anyway regardless of the others?

The competition will be within their own categories, rather than outside, until the final 4.

Would whoever is deemed least popular in each category really change if you swapped out which category they were grouped with?

Of course if one is going from each category then you’re right, but that’s only going to happen once. Every other week, 2 categories will perform and one with the fewest overall votes will go. So what I said applies here

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

Of course if one is going from each category then you’re right, but that’s only going to happen once. Every other week, 2 categories will perform and one with the fewest overall votes will go. So what I said applies here

Well in that case, that's simply an unfair system, which is common for this show for years.

It's like in Big Brother when a housemate is evicted one week after being majority nominated by the whole house but then, in an unfair and unannounced change of rules, someone is nominated and evicted from just one nomination the following week. That makes a mockery of the viewers and the competition by making it unbalanced.

However, the idea of simply culling the categories at an equal rate isn't necessarily a bad one. It's the limited time to get to know them and the inconsistent voting that spoils it.

[Marsh.]

But then you could make the argument that even if one act would've survived against another category, the fact they came bottom of the 8 acts that performed that night shows they're far from deserving of remaining really anyway.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well in that case, that's simply an unfair system, which is common for this show for years.

It's like in Big Brother when a housemate is evicted one week after being majority nominated by the whole house but then, in an unfair and unannounced change of rules, someone is nominated and evicted from just one nomination the following week. That makes a mockery of the viewers and the competition by making it unbalanced.

However, the idea of simply culling the categories at an equal rate isn't necessarily a bad one. It's the limited time to get to know them and the inconsistent voting that spoils it.

The limited time spoils it I agree, but the change up of one week one person will be eliminated from all acts in just two categories, to one act from just one category to eventually one act form all categories is massively flawed

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by supertv247

The limited time spoils it I agree, but the change up of one week one person will be eliminated from all acts in just two categories, to one act from just one category to eventually one act form all categories is massively flawed

Definitely. And the kind of inconsistent brainfart that caused me to abandon this show a while ago.

[supertv247]

It’s just seriously disappointing that we finally have a good bunch of finalists and our own chosen wildcards...... and they **** all over it

[Marsh.]

Go back to the Popstars documentary format I say.

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The sing-off was pointless anyway.
98% of the time they just axed whoever was against their own category and blatantly had no regard for whoever gave the better performance.

I'd also say, axing one from each category makes it more interesting than Louis inevitably ending up with zero groups left by week 3 and us getting the heart throbs.

Getting down to the final 4 being one from each category sounds better to me.

Each round up to the lives is about whittling each category down to the best 3 or 4, so continuing that in the lives until you're left with the "winner" of each category to then face one another and win "X Factor" just sounds better to me.

Agree with this completely, the sing-off was starting to get pretty pointless so I don't see it getting axed as too much of an issue. The format change was necessary - first time the show has interested me in a while.

[Eddie.]

mess at this format!

[Ross.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Which is all kinds of unfair. If there's two crap acts in your category, they deserve to go. This is part of the reason why The Voice is so ****, because they insist[ed] (idk if they still do) on reducing the teams at an equal rate the lives are the worst part of that show and they're literally copying their format...tragic.

They were smart enough to axe this part