[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Speak for yourself,I find brillos posts interesting and thought provoking,she must be sick of the insults she gets in here,no wonder people leave, 'funny how you feel comfortable insulting someone who has a differing opinion to you,I notice you soon dive in with your 'weary' posts to try being a smart arse and belittling brillo,or trying to, it's not working,you sound like a bit of a bully tbh.

Of course several people have grown weary of her posts! Her posts have led to a 20 page discussion. Me saying that barely makes me a bully, it's evidently entirely accurate. there are actually far worse (and more accurate) ways to describe brillos posting style but I reframed for the sake of it, you on the other hand... You personally not being bothered by (at the best) baity childishness or (at worst) actual racism is up to you.

Don't see anybody else on this forum ever be accused of racism, not even banned members really. So maybe we all need to have a think as to the single reason why that may be. The answer will shock you.

[Brillopad]

I can smell the venom.

[user104658]

Seriously, the irony in this thread . Gang-handed filth.

[Marsh.]

Nobody's trying to intimidate anyone off the forum. Don't be so childish.

As long as you have the right to air your views and post your threads, others have the right to comment on what they think of those views.

[Kizzy]

*Waits for bold Niamh to show up*

[Withano]

People often quote and respond to funny/interesting/incorrect/frustrating/stupid/racist(as well as other ists and ophobias) posts. If any member feels as if they're being targetted by several members, its probably because they fit this criteria regularly imo.

[Tom4784]

Someone having an opinion on someone else's opinion is not 'character assassination'. It's a silly claim that only tries to shut down opposing opinions. Honestly, a lot of the people who claim Political Correctness is the devil are strangely for it when it benefits them.

You can't have it one way but not the other, if people are free to spout opinions that seem racist then other people are allowed to share their opinions that they are being racist. Making out that they are being insulting by calling out racism or the other methods used to silence opposing opinions is just being overly political correct in the way you claim to hate.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Someone having an opinion on someone else's opinion is not 'character assassination'. It's a silly claim that only tries to shut down opposing opinions. Honestly, a lot of the people who claim Political Correctness is the devil are strangely for it when it benefits them.

You can't have it one way but not the other, if people are free to spout opinions that seem racist then other people are allowed to share their opinions that they are being racist. Making out that they are being insulting by calling out racism or the other methods used to silence opposing opinions is just being overly political correct in the way you claim to hate.

Opinion is opinion and everyone is entitled to it but it’s how it is expressed that counts a lot. If I kept using the same kind of language towards TS and others that they think they have a right to use towards me because they don’t agree with my opinions I would be treated very differently. Many others can see that how ever much you try to deny it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Opinion is opinion and everyone is entitled to it but it’s how it is expressed that counts a lot. If I kept using the same kind of language towards TS and others that they think they have a right to use towards me because they don’t agree with my opinions I would be treated very differently. Many others can see that how ever much you try to deny it.

And this is the crux of the point being made

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

And this is the crux of the point being made

Yes it is, and I can see that the new tactic is to make out that Brillo is a reasoned, measured and polite orator who always posts things in a thoughtful and balanced manner and is now being unfairly targeted.

I mean come on. There are and have been MANY members on this site who fit that description... I can fully admit that most of the time I'm not one of them but, ffs, Brillo is not one either. Genuinely ridiculous argument.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes it is, and I can see that the new tactic is to make out that Brillo is a reasoned, measured and polite orator who always posts things in a thoughtful and balanced manner and is now being unfairly targeted.

I mean come on. There are and have been MANY members on this site who fit that description... I can fully admit that most of the time I'm not one of them but, ffs, Brillo is not one either. Genuinely ridiculous argument.

In my defence I have never seen Brillo mock someone's opinion unless she is attacked but again I don't go into every thread, I did a search for the private school thing and can't find it, I can only go by what I read, incidentally do you ever sleep..

[user104658]

Except that half of it is pure fantasy. Still not even one vague attempt to explain the private school thread? I gave a specific example and no one, not even Brillo, has attempted to explain how it is in any way "not racist". Completely ignored. I guess it doesn't fit the narrative?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Except that half of it is pure fantasy. Still not even one vague attempt to explain the private school thread? I gave a specific example and no one, not even Brillo, has attempted to explain how it is in any way "not racist". Completely ignored. I guess it doesn't fit the narrative?

I actually didn't see it and i have a pretty good memory, might have been away or something, plus I don't go into every thread, post the link maybe?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Except that half of it is pure fantasy. Still not even one vague attempt to explain the private school thread? I gave a specific example and no one, not even Brillo, has attempted to explain how it is in any way "not racist". Completely ignored. I guess it doesn't fit the narrative?

Maybe it was an overreaction to what I saw as sexist views. Feminism has taken many steps forward in the West only to have some come here and try to take many steps back again which can be extremely frustrating. As a man you may think you understand that but never in the personal way women can.

To completely disregard any other possibility and immediately jump on racism is predictable from some as you don't really care why - you seized on what you considered a triumphant note, believing you had a stick to beat me with and a chance to take the moral high-ground once again.

I never see you voluntarily decry the blatant sexism practiced by some religions, only perhaps if pushed when trying to defend your double standards. I don't care what you or people like you think and I will defend my corner but I will in the most part try to be reasonably polite about it, although naturally that is harder to do when those still in the playground throw around words they think will evoke the biggest reaction.

I think it has little to with racism, sexism or any other ism on your part and more to do with trying to take the moral high-ground at the same time as trying to undermine and belittle others. You do enjoy it in my opinion.

[Josy]

This threads a mess. similar to the way most threads in here turn out these days....

ANYONE is entitled to their opinion on here and is entitled to express that opinion or on the other hand question that opinion, as long as it's all done in a respectful way and is within the forum rules.

But seriously stop this constant arguing, it's not debates going on in this section its silly tit for tat comments amongst the same members a majority of the time.

[Josy]

Adding... if you have strong opinions in here then expect people to question those opinions.

[Withano]

(The thread in question http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...hlight=slavery)

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

(The thread in question http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...hlight=slavery)

Do you feel good now!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

(The thread in question http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...hlight=slavery)

Thank you, my memory is serving me well, didn't see it at the time, the thread shows that Brillo may have made a presumption based on the picture and the family name, or she may know that Wahid is a muslim name, not sure which, it also shows Brillo shows great restraint under provocation and remains polite and argues her corner in a polite manner unless pushed.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Thank you, my memory is serving me well, didn't see it at the time, the thread shows that Brillo may have made a presumption based on the picture and the family name, or she may know that Wahid is a muslim name, not sure which, it also shows Brillo shows great restraint under provocation and remains polite and argues her corner in a polite manner unless pushed.

Thank you Cherie.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Thank you, my memory is serving me well, didn't see it at the time, the thread shows that Brillo may have made a presumption based on the picture and the family name, or she may know that Wahid is a muslim name, not sure which, it also shows Brillo shows great restraint under provocation and remains polite and argues her corner in a polite manner unless pushed.

It being a traditionally Muslim name is no more relevant than if it was a traditionally Christian name, though, my first daughter's first and middle names are biblical but we're both non-religious... Their name says nothing about their current religious status or how strictly they adhere to it. Or they may well be Muslim, but that still says nothing about the mother's motivations for her complaint... It's all pure assumption, based on their name and POSSIBLE cultural background and if that isn't prejudice, then prejudice doesn't exist?

But fair enough Cherie, I'll give to her that she's not easily riled or rattled, however I disagree that the content of a post is automatically A-OK just because it's argued with a level head.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the whole "muslim" ideology is based on fantastical 7th century middle eastern lies and assumed wisdom from that time, to try and pretend its anything else is dangerous. Its an inherited god cult that has no place in the UK or anywhere tbh.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the whole "muslim" ideology is based on fantastical 7th century middle eastern lies and assumed wisdom from that time, to try and pretend its anything else is dangerous. Its an inherited god cult that has no place in the UK or anywhere tbh.

As most might be aware I don't disagree with this about religion in general; it's an outdated concept that had its place once in cultural progression but now does nothing but hold back progress. I think I've made that abundantly clear in a lot of threads... I am hugely skeptical of religion and I find it deeply problematic on many levels and yes that includes Islam. There is still plenty of extreme opinion in Christianity, I personally think they're just more used to keeping it hidden.

For example, a Christian friend of mine who I thought was very moderate (you know, like a casual-religious person) basically ended up admitting during a discussion that she's only OK with gay people "because it's up to God to pass judgement not her" but that she does fully believe that gay people "are sinners and can't get into heaven unless they repent". I would honestly never have expected her to hold those beliefs... But they are there for many.

So yes I agree that giving religion special status is dangerous - but I also believe that giving Islam special status separate to religion in general is also dangerous and distracting. "Islam is bad, Catholicism is good and gentle". It's just not accurate.

[user104658]

But Brillo... Do you genuinely believe that all or most Muslim men are sexist? Do you see a Muslim man and immediately assume that he is sexist? More importantly - as per the school thread - do you see people with a middle eastern opinion, assume that they are Muslim, and THEN assume sexist motives? Also... Do you think that it's ONLY Muslims who are sexist? Because I know a lot of extremely sexist old pigs (work hazard) and 90% of them are white and British born. Yes, one of the worst is a Muslim guy, who doesn't even like to be served by female staff - BUT - there are at least a dozen other Muslim customers or customers "with the appearance of someone who may be Muslim" who are polite, respectful, chatty and cheerful. You just can't go around judging a whole group of people based on the most extreme examples? Because like I said, there are still plenty of disrespectful, aggressively sexist British men around but you wouldn't judge all British men based on their behaviour.

That's the difference and that's what makes it - shudder to use the term - pretty racist. You make sweeping assumptions about individuals based on what they look like, or where they are from. That's the issue here.

I think you've decided that people don't care about sexism in Muslim communities or that it isn't a problem. Yes, it is a problem. Yes, it should definitely be addressed and not ignored, but if anything your valid points get completely lost as soon as you start making these generalisations... Am I guilty of ruining some of your threads? Probably, yeah, but nowhere near as many as you ruin yourself by losing the focus of the issue and making it about "all" or "most" of a group.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But Brillo... Do you genuinely believe that all or most Muslim men are sexist? Do you see a Muslim man and immediately assume that he is sexist? More importantly - as per the school thread - do you see people with a middle eastern opinion, assume that they are Muslim, and THEN assume sexist motives? Also... Do you think that it's ONLY Muslims who are sexist? Because I know a lot of extremely sexist old pigs (work hazard) and 90% of them are white and British born. Yes, one of the worst is a Muslim guy, who doesn't even like to be served by female staff - BUT - there are at least a dozen other Muslim customers or customers "with the appearance of someone who may be Muslim" who are polite, respectful, chatty and cheerful. You just can't go around judging a whole group of people based on the most extreme examples? Because like I said, there are still plenty of disrespectful, aggressively sexist British men around but you wouldn't judge all British men based on their behaviour.

That's the difference and that's what makes it - shudder to use the term - pretty racist. You make sweeping assumptions about individuals based on what they look like, or where they are from. That's the issue here.

I think you've decided that people don't care about sexism in Muslim communities or that it isn't a problem. Yes, it is a problem. Yes, it should definitely be addressed and not ignored, but if anything your valid points get completely lost as soon as you start making these generalisations... Am I guilty of ruining some of your threads? Probably, yeah, but nowhere near as many as you ruin yourself by losing the focus of the issue and making it about "all" or "most" of a group.

I would agree with that as well