[Vicky.]

I will stick up for the womens rights posters on mumsnet here and say that when they say men they tend to mean 'as a class' rather than all men. And its quite right that men (as a class) love talking over women.

I don't think acknowledging the systematic oppression of women by men makes one a misandrist. This obviously does not mean all men oppress women, but its ridiculous to deny that women are oppressed on the whole because of their female biology and the fact that biology also means we are weaker and the ones who bear children. And its those of the sex that sire children and are stronger and larger that do the oppressing of the other group.

This is pretty basic feminism tbh :S Acknowledging these facts, however uncomfortable this makes you.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I will stick up for the womens rights posters on mumsnet here and say that when they say men they tend to mean 'as a class' rather than all men. And its quite right that men (as a class) love talking over women.

I don't think acknowledging the systematic oppression of women by men makes one a misandrist. This obviously does not mean all men oppress women, but its ridiculous to deny that women are oppressed on the whole because of their female biology and the fact that biology also means we are weaker and the ones who bear children. And its those of the sex that sire children and are stronger and larger that do the oppressing of the other group.

This is pretty basic feminism tbh :S Acknowledging these facts, however uncomfortable this makes you.

The issue there though with using language infering that ‘men are the problem’ is if you generalise like that about any other ‘class’ in society(except white People) I.E ‘women are the problem’,’muslims are the problem’,’trans people are the problem’ then you’re shouted down as sexist,racist,transphobic etc etc.
What makes feminists above being called out for the same generalising language?
That kind of stuff can just alienate male readers instead of making them more sympathetic.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The issue there though with using language infering that ‘men are the problem’ is if you generalise like that about any other ‘class’ in society(except white People) I.E ‘women are the problem’,’muslims are the problem’,’trans people are the problem’ then you’re shouted down as sexist,racist,transphobic etc etc.
What makes feminists above being called out for the same generalising language?
That kind of stuff can just alienate male readers instead of making them more sympathetic.

If there was overwhelming evidence that on any issue 'Muslims' or 'trans people' were the problem, I would have non issue with this being said?

When speaking of violence, and specifically sexual violence, you cannot deny that it is a very male issue on the whole. When talking of sex based oppression, you cannot deny that it has been (and is) males oppressing females by whatever means, not the other way around.

I do believe in 'male privilege' tbh. Sue me.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If there was overwhelming evidence that on any issue 'Muslims' or 'trans people' were the problem, I would have non issue with this being said?

When speaking of violence, and specifically sexual violence, you cannot deny that it is a very male issue on the whole. When talking of sex based oppression, you cannot deny that it has been (and is) males oppressing females by whatever means, not the other way around.

I do believe in 'male privilege' tbh. Sue me.

It’s really no different though.It could be argued that Islamic terrorism is a muslim problem and trans activists are a trans problem.

As for male privilege my opinion is that males could possibly be privileged in certain areas but then so are women.I’d say it’s pretty equal these days.Men and women are different and prosper in different areas and are oppressed in different ways too.