[Livia]

I think that animal welfare standard in the UK are FAR above the majority of EU countries. I'm baffled at this thinking that being in the EU has made us all fluffy and loving.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think that animal welfare standard in the UK are FAR above the majority of EU countries. I'm baffled at this thinking that being in the EU has made us all fluffy and loving.

Who mentioned the EU?... What has the EU to do with the issue here and the vote in OUR parliament on animal sentience.
Don't try to muddy the waters by pointing at other parts of the world and their positions on animal welfare but focus on ours, that is the topic of the thread.
What are your thoughts on the outcome of the vote?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who mentioned the EU?... What has the EU to do with the issue here and the vote in OUR parliament on animal sentience.
Don't try to muddy the waters by pointing at other parts of the world and their positions on animal welfare but focus on ours, that is the topic of the thread.
What are your thoughts on the outcome of the vote?

I agree. I think Livias point was that the majority of animal welfare regulations before now were mostly EU laws. But I don't think that's directly relevant. This is more about what is happening, than what isn't happening.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Didn't think that brexit was being used to remove rights and protections?...Think again

'MPs have voted to reject the inclusion of animal sentience – the admission that animals feel emotion and pain – into the EU Withdrawal Bill.

The move has been criticised by animal rights activists, who say the vote undermines environment secretary Michael Gove’s pledge to prioritise animal rights during Brexit.

The majority of animal welfare legislation comes from the EU. The UK Government is tasked with adopting EU laws directly after March 2019 but has dismissed animal sentience.'

This will impact in all areas of animal welfare, can people still be convicted of animal cruelty? Could it be used to bring back fox hunting or badger baiting?
Will regulations on animal slaughter be relaxed?

My feeling also is that standards in farming will suffer with more animals kept in smaller spaced and potentially battery fed like chickens.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8064676.html

Originally Posted by Livia

I think that animal welfare standard in the UK are FAR above the majority of EU countries. I'm baffled at this thinking that being in the EU has made us all fluffy and loving.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who mentioned the EU?... What has the EU to do with the issue here and the vote in OUR parliament on animal sentience.
Don't try to muddy the waters by pointing at other parts of the world and their positions on animal welfare but focus on ours, that is the topic of the thread.
What are your thoughts on the outcome of the vote?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

The decision on sentience wasn't taken in the EU, that was the meaning behind that statement Smudgie. My post was in relation to the decision taken in our parliament only.

There is as always the challenge from Livia that we have better protections than anywhere, but where are they? Where is the burden of proof that our animal rights protections are better? Of course imagining for a second they are will they still be when the issue of animal sentience is applied to preexisting legislation? Will animals be afforded the same protections due to the fact it has been asserted they have no capacity for emotion?

I'm sorry I confused you but again I'm conscious of the conversation being diverted into an EU bashing exercise rather than a discussion on how our independence is being mapped.
We are a nation of animal lovers, does this ruling speak for us and what will it mean for the future of animal welfare in England?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The decision on sentience wasn't taken in the EU, that was the meaning behind that statement Smudgie. My post was in relation to the decision taken in our parliament only.

There is as always the challenge from Livia that we have better protections than anywhere, but where are they? Where is the burden of proof that our animal rights protections are better? Of course imagining for a second they are will they still be when the issue of animal sentience is applied to preexisting legislation? Will animals be afforded the same protections due to the fact it has been asserted they have no capacity for emotion?

I'm sorry I confused you but again I'm conscious of the conversation being diverted into an EU bashing exercise rather than a discussion on how our independence is being mapped.
We are a nation of animal lovers, does this ruling speak for us and what will it mean for the future of animal welfare in England?

Ah right.
Just that the EU was mentioned in the post.
I can actually see where Livia is coming from, in as much as we do have decent animal welfare here, better than some EU countries.
I know people bring up the foxhunting, but I really can't see a bill to overturn it ever getting through parliament.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Ah right.
Just that the EU was mentioned in the post.
I can actually see where Livia is coming from, in as much as we do have decent animal welfare here, better than some EU countries.
I know people bring up the foxhunting, but I really can't see a bill to overturn it ever getting through parliament.

Why not, with the DUP deal they can force anything through they got this through didn't they. It will happen.
It was mentioned but it was not the topic offered for discussion, we had decent animal welfare as it was fought hard for as are most rights and protections.
This vote is the first step in removing those protections, if it's deemed that animals don't have the capacity to feel pain or have emotions why do they need rights?.. they become nothing but a commodity.

Even with the laws we had they were not enforced adequately now there will be no duty to.

'Animals in labs across Northern Ireland suffered 22,214 experiments in 2016 - even with law recognising their ability to feel pain.

And shockingly there was a 37% rise in the number of cats used in trials, 56% of which were for basic research.
Now a DUP-backed Tory vote to remove EU legislation recognising ‘animal sentience’ has put the future of animal welfare across the UK at risk.

The highly-criticised “backward step” was decided by a vote of 313 to 295 at Westminster, even though it was the UK that convinced the EU to recognise animals as ‘sentient beings’ who feel pain, fear and hunger in 1997.

“It is not good enough for the government to say that animal sentience is covered by the UK Animal Welfare Act – the fact is, it isn’t,” said chief executive of Cruelty Free International, Michelle Thew.

“It certainly takes no account of the pain and suffering felt by animals in laboratories across the country.

“Statistics from Northern Ireland this week show that hugely controversial animal experiments are sadly far from being significantly reduced.”

Universities, charities and commercial operations were responsible for the tests, almost half of which caused moderate to severe suffering to animals (4% severe and 43% moderate).'


If this is the level of 'protection' offered now what will it be now it's been passed that animals don't suffer.... will things for them get better, or worse?



http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/22...thern-13932771