[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I suppose it doesn't really matter. I just think if more news comes out about Lily and people want to add it this thread, or add something to this original discussion it would be a bit hard/messy? It's not important though if you can't

There will be more news about Lily. For sure. You know the list of people who are happy for a male person to be taking spaces on the jo cox women in leadership thing? Well the people who resigned on the CLP when Anne Ruzlo had to quit due to being harassed for 'transphobic views' (worrying about the impact on females) are currently gathering signatures to say its wrong. So this ****storm has not ended yet

I have no doubts though that Labour will stand by the ridiculous decision. There are many many people saying they will no longer vote Labour due to Labour clearly not giving a **** about women. This whole thing seems to be ensuring yet another Tory win.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...eadership?pg=1

200 people so far. Including me.

I would never vote Tory as they are evil. But I don't think I can vote for a party that has such misogynistic views either. And Corbyn fully supports this crap. Might have to spoil my next ballot as no party seems willing to stand up for the rights of women (or children, or gay people...with the 'transing' gender non-conforming kids scandal thats currently happening)

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There will be more news about Lily. For sure. You know the list of people who are happy for a male person to be taking spaces on the jo cox women in leadership thing? Well the people who resigned on the CLP when Anne Ruzlo had to quit due to being harassed for 'transphobic views' (worrying about the impact on females) are currently gathering signatures to say its wrong. So this ****storm has not ended yet

I have no doubts though that Labour will stand by the ridiculous decision. There are many many people saying they will no longer vote Labour due to Labour clearly not giving a **** about women. This whole thing seems to be ensuring yet another Tory win.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...eadership?pg=1

200 people so far. Including me.

I would never vote Tory as they are evil. But I don't think I can vote for a party that has such misogynistic views either. And Corbyn fully supports this crap. Might have to spoil my next ballot as no party seems willing to stand up for the rights of women (or children, or gay people...with the 'transing' gender non-conforming kids scandal thats currently happening)

Corbyn supports a lot of dubious views in my opinion - hence why I have never liked or trusted the man. He says the right things when it suits.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Corbyn supports a lot of dubious views in my opinion - hence why I have never liked or trusted the man. He says the right things when it suits.

Corbyn is an odd one. He says there is a need for female only carriages on trains. But he also thinks its fine for any man to say he is a woman. Where do those views held simultaneously make any sense?

Problem if, both main parties support this regressive anti-woman bull****. As do the greens. Not sure on the Lib Dem view...but I suppose its the same as Labour. There is NO party willing to stand up for women (the kind without penises). I find that really sad.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Corbyn is an odd one. He says there is a need for female only carriages on trains. But he also thinks its fine for any man to say he is a woman. Where do those views held simultaneously make any sense?

Problem if, both main parties support this regressive anti-woman bull****. As do the greens. Not sure on the Lib Dem view...but I suppose its the same as Labour. There is NO party willing to stand up for women (the kind without penises). I find that really sad.

Sad and bizarre! Across the globe women make up approximately 50% (just over I think) of the worldwide population so why has it , and why is it still, proving to be such a slog to get our views and opinions listened to and treated with the respect they are entitled to even from other women in power. Again probably social conditioning raising its ugly head from the ashes of so-called equality. We still seem to have to fight for everything.

Most women do NOT want men who have allegedly self-identified as women lurking around their bathrooms and that view should be respected and acted on. There are a lot of serious male predators out there and no-one, including Corbyn, has the right to expose any girl/woman to that.

At best he clearly lacks any real understanding of the potential risks and undervalues our opinions, certainly in comparison to minority groups, his speciality, and his only concern it seems. Do only minority groups matter to him as they seem to be the headline catchers.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Sad and bizarre! Across the globe women make up approximately 50% (just over I think) of the worldwide population so why has it , and why is it still, proving to be such a slog to get our views and opinions listened to and treated with the respect they are entitled to even from other women in power. Again probably social conditioning raising its ugly head from the ashes of so-called equality. We still seem to have to fight for everything.

Most women do NOT want men who have allegedly self-identified as women lurking around their bathrooms and that view should be respected and acted on. There are a lot of serious male predators out there and no-one, including Corbyn, has the right to expose any girl/woman to that.

At best he clearly lacks any real understanding of the potential risks and undervalues our opinions, certainly in comparison to minority groups, his speciality, and his only concern it seems. Do only minority gro7os matter to him or are they the headline catchers.

Women are not even being consulted. Any woman who objects is immediately a 'transphobe'. Only trans groups have been advising the government on this issue. And trans groups certainly do not give a crap about women. They only care about the 'women' who were born with dicks. Its such a sad state of affairs.

Jess Phillips recently said that it was not unreasonable to expect the government to actually consult with womens rights groups on this issue. And was immediately bombarded with death threats, and cries of 'terf' and transphobe... Just for saying women should get a say in stuff that will affect them...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Jess Phillips recently said that it was not unreasonable to expect the government to actually consult with womens rights groups on this issue. And was immediately bombarded with death threats, and cries of 'terf' and transphobe... Just for saying women should get a say in stuff that will affect them...

Thats how these things work now, haven't you heard? Made up buzzwords and mantras are the atom bombs of debate. "Terf!", "Lefty Liberal!", "Remoaner!"... *ahem*... "Mansplaining!"

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Thats how these things work now, haven't you heard? Made up buzzwords and mantras are the atom bombs of debate. "Terf!", "Lefty Liberal!", "Remoaner!"... *ahem*... "Mansplaining!"

Who would have thought that the only one to really cut you to the quick would be this one...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Women are not even being consulted. Any woman who objects is immediately a 'transphobe'. Only trans groups have been advising the government on this issue. And trans groups certainly do not give a crap about women. They only care about the 'women' who were born with dicks. Its such a sad state of affairs.

Jess Phillips recently said that it was not unreasonable to expect the government to actually consult with womens rights groups on this issue. And was immediately bombarded with death threats, and cries of 'terf' and transphobe... Just for saying women should get a say in stuff that will affect them...

That is scary. The world is going mad. Although I can see how various groups want equality that is not the way to go about it and actually worries me about the characters and possibly the mental stability of people threatening others like that. Anyone who endorses it is a disgrace to politics in my opinion and clearly jumping on the vote-catching bandwagon. Not genuine at all.

This will eventually come back and bite them in the arse and probably end careers. Good.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There will be more news about Lily. For sure. You know the list of people who are happy for a male person to be taking spaces on the jo cox women in leadership thing? Well the people who resigned on the CLP when Anne Ruzlo had to quit due to being harassed for 'transphobic views' (worrying about the impact on females) are currently gathering signatures to say its wrong. So this ****storm has not ended yet

I have no doubts though that Labour will stand by the ridiculous decision. There are many many people saying they will no longer vote Labour due to Labour clearly not giving a **** about women. This whole thing seems to be ensuring yet another Tory win.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...eadership?pg=1

200 people so far. Including me.

I would never vote Tory as they are evil. But I don't think I can vote for a party that has such misogynistic views either. And Corbyn fully supports this crap. Might have to spoil my next ballot as no party seems willing to stand up for the rights of women (or children, or gay people...with the 'transing' gender non-conforming kids scandal thats currently happening)

Is it technically off topic that you've brought this back on topic but yeah I agree it's not going to go away. Maybe in that case a new thread for all the other stuff would be best?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There will be more news about Lily. For sure. You know the list of people who are happy for a male person to be taking spaces on the jo cox women in leadership thing? Well the people who resigned on the CLP when Anne Ruzlo had to quit due to being harassed for 'transphobic views' (worrying about the impact on females) are currently gathering signatures to say its wrong. So this ****storm has not ended yet

I have no doubts though that Labour will stand by the ridiculous decision. There are many many people saying they will no longer vote Labour due to Labour clearly not giving a **** about women. This whole thing seems to be ensuring yet another Tory win.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...eadership?pg=1

200 people so far. Including me.

I would never vote Tory as they are evil. But I don't think I can vote for a party that has such misogynistic views either. And Corbyn fully supports this crap. Might have to spoil my next ballot as no party seems willing to stand up for the rights of women (or children, or gay people...with the 'transing' gender non-conforming kids scandal thats currently happening)

I would say that is my only worry that there is a danger of trying to be all things to all people, you are are at risk of alienating one group by supporting another. That is one topic trasnskids, I have done a 180 on, I was for the halting of puberty with drugs... and now I feel that counselling, support and peer mentoring is a better way.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I would say that is my only worry that there is a danger of trying to be all things to all people, you are are at risk of alienating one group by supporting another. That is one topic trasnskids, I have done a 180 on, I was for the halting of puberty with drugs... and now I feel that counselling, support and peer mentoring is a better way.

Definitely. I would say giving puberty blockers is actually child abuse. There is a huge scandal in America of people given Lupron (the chemotherapy drug used to halt puberty) who have gone onto have lifelong medical problems off it, and this is fully grown women who were given it for only a few months. The effects on a childs body who has been given it for years is...awful to think about really.

Watchful waiting, is clearly the way to go with kids. Not drugging them up to the eyeballs just because they don't follow bloody stereotypes. I mean, there are parents saying their bloody 3 year olds are trans now. Its just silly.

Its a sad statistic really, but when non-conforming kids are just left alone to develop (with counseling and such) 80-95% (depending where you look) of them effectively 'grow out' of their questioning. But when they are put onto blockers, near 100% go onto cross sex hormones. So blockers are NOT simply 'to give them time to figure it out'. Putting them on blockers is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, the 5-20% of kids who do not grow out of it may benefit from blockers. But there is no way to tell which actually will grow up to be trans and which won't. I don;t feel its right to effectively throw 80% of kids under the bus to benefit the 20%. Watchful waiting is clearly the answer. If they still feel 'wrong' when they are adults, THEN drug them up and give them plastic surgeries to resemble to opposite sex.

Though, transition is made out to be the 'wonder cure' for trans people. When studies actually show that 5-10 years 'post transition' the suicide rate actually is higher than before any transition...something to think about really. I really do feel that 'transition' is not that different to giving someone with BDD a boob job, or cutting off a 'transabled' persons leg. Treating the illness but not the cause, in a way. Bandaid on a broken leg.

If it helps an individual person, great. Good for them. But much much more investigation and study needs to go into the whole thing. There was a guy..James Caspian..has worked with trans people most of his life and wanted to do a study on 'detransitioned' people. And was blocked from doing that study as the University he worked for were afraid of the response from transactivists, they were afraid of being labelled transphobic. Why would they be afraid of more study being done on people this affects?

Definitely more work needs to be done about how best to support these people.

I actually think with this 'transkids' thing there is going to be a massive backlash in 10 years or so. When these kids grow up and realise they were effective experimented on and that the people who should be looking out for their best interests, did not do that. Its similar to lobotomies in a way...the 'wonder cure. Which is anything but. I am worried that the backlash will be the end of the NHS, as the NHS encourage all of this, they signpost people to 'mermaids' (which is a pressure group, noone should be sent to them, they are horrendous). People trust the NHS. People think the NHS will always have their kids best interests. The NHS certainly do not have the kids best interests in this :S

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Definitely. I would say giving puberty blockers is actually child abuse. There is a huge scandal in America of people given Lupron (the chemotherapy drug used to halt puberty) who have gone onto have lifelong medical problems off it, and this is fully grown women who were given it for only a few months. The effects on a childs body who has been given it for years is...awful to think about really.

Watchful waiting, is clearly the way to go with kids. Not drugging them up to the eyeballs just because they don't follow bloody stereotypes. I mean, there are parents saying their bloody 3 year olds are trans now. Its just silly.

Its a sad statistic really, but when non-conforming kids are just left alone to develop (with counseling and such) 80-95% (depending where you look) of them effectively 'grow out' of their questioning. But when they are put onto blockers, near 100% go onto cross sex hormones. So blockers are NOT simply 'to give them time to figure it out'. Putting them on blockers is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, the 5-20% of kids who do not grow out of it may benefit from blockers. But there is no way to tell which actually will grow up to be trans and which won't. I don;t feel its right to effectively throw 80% of kids under the bus to benefit the 20%. Watchful waiting is clearly the answer. If they still feel 'wrong' when they are adults, THEN drug them up and give them plastic surgeries to resemble to opposite sex.

Though, transition is made out to be the 'wonder cure' for trans people. When studies actually show that 5-10 years 'post transition' the suicide rate actually is higher than before any transition...something to think about really. I really do feel that 'transition' is not that different to giving someone with BDD a boob job, or cutting off a 'transabled' persons leg. Treating the illness but not the cause, in a way. Bandaid on a broken leg.

If it helps an individual person, great. Good for them. But much much more investigation and study needs to go into the whole thing. There was a guy..James Caspian..has worked with trans people most of his life and wanted to do a study on 'detransitioned' people. And was blocked from doing that study as the University he worked for were afraid of the response from transactivists, they were afraid of being labelled transphobic. Why would they be afraid of more study being done on people this affects?

Definitely more work needs to be done about how best to support these people.

I actually think with this 'transkids' thing there is going to be a massive backlash in 10 years or so. When these kids grow up and realise they were effective experimented on and that the people who should be looking out for their best interests, did not do that. Its similar to lobotomies in a way...the 'wonder cure. Which is anything but. I am worried that the backlash will be the end of the NHS, as the NHS encourage all of this, they signpost people to 'mermaids' (which is a pressure group, noone should be sent to them, they are horrendous). People trust the NHS. People think the NHS will always have their kids best interests. The NHS certainly do not have the kids best interests in this :S

The conspiracy theorist in me would say it was to stop anyone 'gender confused' from reproducing :/

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

The conspiracy theorist in me would say it was to stop anyone 'gender confused' from reproducing :/

Its gay eugenics. And eugenics of people with Autism also (there are a disproportionate amount of 'trans' kids who are autistic)

And the whole movement is basically..get the **** back into your gendered box. Girls must wear dresses and be nice and play with dolls, boys must have short hair and play with trucks. If you do not conform, you are a problem.

Issue is...most of the population is 'gender non-conforming' in some way. Sex stereotypes are just that, stereotypes. Its crazy to expect people to conform to them.