[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Let’s get one thing straight, Corbyn does not take the side of terrorists, he takes the side of something he considers an injustice he’s a rebel with a cause but he’s a rebel who is always looking at ways to find a peace process and the one thing that’s apparent to those of us who support him is, he’s the person who will stand up and fight against injustice and inequality in our society.

When Cameron was supplying arms to South Africa Corbyn was demonstrating against apartheid. When Blair was all for war in Iraq, Corbyn was on the front line of the million-man march. Justice is a double-edged sword. He doesn’t support terrorism and he doesn’t support ISIS but he is willing to stand up and talk about the cause and effect.

As for his involvement in NI... What Corbyn supported was the end of British rule in Ulster but he did condemn both sides of the conflict and he did put particular pressure on the British government to face up to the Ulster Unionists. It was Brooke, a Tory Minister who started the peace talks in Northern Ireland. Further to that, John Hume, an Irish Social Democrat and Gerry Adams, under a huge amount of scrutiny, sat down and started talking about a ceasefire. In 97 when Blair was elected, Mo Mowlam was asked by the Labour government to go to Northern Ireland and have further talks with Gerry Adams. Mo Mowlam asked Corbyn to accompany her as go between, which is what he did on many occasions. Regardless of what anyone says, Jeremy Corbyn played a key role in bringing about the Good Friday agreement. That had always been Corbyns intension.

Good Friday was, without a doubt, a historic achievement but it would never of come about if people like Corbyn and Mowlam hadn’t been able to sympathize with the Republicans. That though, doesn’t, as the right so jubilantly like to point out, mean that he sympathized with terrorism. He has always stated categorically that he didn’t.

Lets get this straight - Corbyn was an out and out IRA sympathiser who spoke at IRA rallies in the 70's, cheering on their bombing campaign and attending the funerals of IRA terrorists. That is well known here in N. Ireland. I know people who knew him well. He was a ****ty wet little nobody who liked playing and associating with the big boys in their 'struggle', which really means 'murderous campaign'. He was a rebel alright - one whose sympathies lay with those who murdered innocent woman and children in cold blood.

It's a shame you can't get N.Ireland local TV which has talked with politicians from all N.I parties at one time or another this past year about the UK elections and Corbyn and none of them, when the topic comes up - not a single one - have cited Corbyn as being in any way involved, never mind influential in the peace process and the Good Friday agreement. Many of them laugh.
In fact, their perception and knowledge of him is very much the same as the countless articles telling of his rewriting of history and how he was very much an IRA supporter, hanging around them and Gerry Adams like a pathetic fanboy, bigging himself up as having importance.

Even members of Sinn Fein scoff and Nationalist Duputy Minister Seamus Mallon, who at the time stepped into John Humes shoes when he became ill, repeatedly says Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with the peace process. The consensus is that Corbyn inserted himself into a complex conflict as nothing more than a irrelevant serial glory seeker, and on one side only - the Republican side.

I admit I laughed out loud when I read that you said he was a 'key figure' in it all. But you have obviously ignored the myriad of articles and essays to the contrary and found a few somewhere that insist he was a key figure, like that fake letter on DS a while back, so that is that.
Perhaps you should post those links that give historic accounts of his great contribution to the Good Friday Agreement - if he was a key figure, as you insist, there must be plenty of them about - I have failed to find any, but surely you just don't take his word for it? There are official accounts listing all the key figures, but the Great Jeremy is nowhere to be found.

The actual people and politicians of N.Ireland who know a hellava lot more about the Troubles and what went on than you possibly can are all wrong and you are right. And for the record, as for your 'history lesson' above on my own small country, you've got some of that wrong and left out some very important people who were involved in the process.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

Lets get this straight - Corbyn was an out and out IRA sympathiser who spoke at IRA rallies in the 70's, cheering on their bombing campaign and attending the funerals of IRA terrorists. That is well known here in N. Ireland. I know people who knew him well. He was a ****ty wet little nobody who liked playing and associating with the big boys in their 'struggle', which really means 'murderous campaign'. He was a rebel alright - one whose sympathies lay with those who murdered innocent woman and children in cold blood.

It's a shame you can't get N.Ireland local TV which has talked with politicians from all N.I parties at one time or another this past year about the UK elections and Corbyn and none of them, when the topic comes up - not a single one - have cited Corbyn as being in any way involved, never mind influential in the peace process and the Good Friday agreement. Many of them laugh.
In fact, their perception and knowledge of him is very much the same as the countless articles telling of his rewriting of history and how he was very much an IRA supporter, hanging around them and Gerry Adams like a pathetic fanboy, bigging himself up as having importance.

Even members of Sinn Fein scoff and Nationalist Duputy Minister Seamus Mallon, who at the time stepped into John Humes shoes when he became ill, repeatedly says Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with the peace process. The consensus is that Corbyn inserted himself into a complex conflict as nothing more than a irrelevant serial glory seeker, and on one side only - the Republican side.

I admit I laughed out loud when I read that you said he was a 'key figure' in it all. But you have obviously ignored the myriad of articles and essays to the contrary and found a few somewhere that insist he was a key figure, like that fake letter on DS a while back, so that is that.
Perhaps you should post those links that give historic accounts of his great contribution to the Good Friday Agreement - if he was a key figure, as you insist, there must be plenty of them about - I have failed to find any, but surely you just don't take his word for it? There are official accounts listing all the key figures, but the Great Jeremy is nowhere to be found.

The actual people and politicians of N.Ireland who know a hellava lot more about the Troubles and what went on than you possibly can are all wrong and you are right. And for the record, as for your 'history lesson' above on my own small country, you've got some of that wrong and left out some very important people who were involved in the process.

Its not all the Irish who think like this though is it? The Irish Republicans generally support Corbyn because they know he was involved in fighting for the Catholic cause. I’m not talking abortion laws, I’m talking community concerns and the Irish reunification and the miscarriages of justice with the Guildford Four and Birmingham six.

You say he was involved in extremism and I say he was involved in meaningful Northern Irish dialogue and advocating a peaceful solution. He didn’t march with Sinn Fein because he was a terrorist supporter, he marched with Sinn Fein because of the endemic bigotry, oppression and persecution of the catholic people.
This wasn’t good against evil, though the Nationalists and the British press would have us think that. There were two evils in that long war; one was the IRA, the other was the British Government.


He has IRA links, He supports Hamas, He is a cheerleader for anti-semites, He has funded Holocaust deniars, He has tolerated anti-semitism in the Labour party, He has been on the payroll of state funded Iranian media

An LSE survey found that 74% of newspaper articles ‘offered either no or a highly distorted account of Corbyn’s views and ideas’ and that only 9% were ‘positive’ in tone. Research carried out at Birkbeck similarly found a strong bias in 'mainstream media coverage'. So how trustworthy are those claims?
https://www.opendemocracy.net/luke-d...us-friendships
https://www.opendemocracy.net/luke-d...us-friendships


I guess you and me will just have to agree to a stalemate.

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its not all the Irish who think like this though is it? The Irish Republicans generally support Corbyn because they know he was involved in fighting for the Catholic cause. I’m not talking abortion laws, I’m talking community concerns and the Irish reunification and the miscarriages of justice with the Guildford Four and Birmingham six.

You say he was involved in extremism and I say he was involved in meaningful Northern Irish dialogue and advocating a peaceful solution. He didn’t march with Sinn Fein because he was a terrorist supporter, he marched with Sinn Fein because of the endemic bigotry, oppression and persecution of the catholic people.
This wasn’t good against evil, though the Nationalists and the British press would have us think that. There were two evils in that long war; one was the IRA, the other was the British Government.


He has IRA links, He supports Hamas, He is a cheerleader for anti-semites, He has funded Holocaust deniars, He has tolerated anti-semitism in the Labour party, He has been on the payroll of state funded Iranian media

An LSE survey found that 74% of newspaper articles ‘offered either no or a highly distorted account of Corbyn’s views and ideas’ and that only 9% were ‘positive’ in tone. Research carried out at Birkbeck similarly found a strong bias in 'mainstream media coverage'. So how trustworthy are those claims?
https://www.opendemocracy.net/luke-d...us-friendships
https://www.opendemocracy.net/luke-d...us-friendships


I guess you and me will just have to agree to a stalemate.

The oppression and persecution of Catholics ended centuries ago. I am a N. Irish Catholic and I, nor anyone I know, was deliberately oppressed and certainly not persecuted in our lifetime. The Catholics were poorer than Protestants simply because they refused to practise birth control and many had families of 10 or more children. Protestants had mainly 2 or 3. You can see the problem here with adequate housing, welfare and jobs, can’t you?

Many people have this romantic notion of a poor persecuted people and the IRA as freedom fighters releasing them from their hell on earth. What a load of bollocks. It all may have started off initially as civil rights marches but by the time the IRA became involved it was all about a United Ireland and a long standing historical hatred of the British, nothing more. If it was about a better life for Catholics, why did they bomb the hell out of the place, with not only the tragic loss of life, but the severe loss of jobs, the curtailing of an ordinary everyday life, the serious effects on the economy and tourism, and the fear and mistrust among once peaceful communities that only made things 100% worse than they had ever been?

Why did they bomb public places like bars, restaurants, bus stations etc. were they didn’t know the religion of anyone about to lose their lives or limbs? Catholics, Protestants, any other religion, women, children, babies. And you have the gall to talk about oppression and persecution? If there ever was any it was soon replaced by terror and grief and real poverty.

Another misconception is why how the IRA came to end their campaign. The truth is they knew they were getting nowhere by bombing and murder and never would, their resources were seriously depleted and their recruitment was faltering. They welcomed the peace talks because it was the only way forward.

To put the British Government on a par with the IRA in the N.Ireland conflict in their ‘evilness’ is mind blowingly stupid and suggests a support for terrorists at worst and a wilful ignorance at best.

I know people who seen Corbyn praising the IRA at rallies with their own eyes, not that I expect you to believe that, and I know something else too that I wouldn't put my head on the block to put out there, as much as I'd like to. Scoff all you want, but there it is for what it's worth.

In that article you linked, the author asserts that Corbyn has denounced the actions of the IRA. He's not a very good researcher at all, is he?
On the Steve Nolan show, Corbyn sits there bigging himself up in a collective ‘we’ about the ceasefire, but refuses to answer the question ‘do you condemn what the IRA did’ 5 times.
On the fifth time, he hangs up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POslQtEkCBY

And answer me this: why would N.I politicians and ministers on both sides and even IRA terrorists insist he had nothing to do whatsoever with the peace process but was simply an avid IRA supporter? What would be the point? Are they all secret Conservative fanatics do you think - including the former NI Nationalist Deputy First Minister?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

The oppression and persecution of Catholics ended centuries ago. I am a N. Irish Catholic and I, nor anyone I know, was deliberately oppressed and certainly not persecuted in our lifetime. The Catholics were poorer than Protestants simply because they refused to practise birth control and many had families of 10 or more children. Protestants had mainly 2 or 3. You can see the problem here with adequate housing, welfare and jobs, can’t you?

Many people have this romantic notion of a poor persecuted people and the IRA as freedom fighters releasing them from their hell on earth. What a load of bollocks. It all may have started off initially as civil rights marches but by the time the IRA became involved it was all about a United Ireland and a long standing historical hatred of the British, nothing more. If it was about a better life for Catholics, why did they bomb the hell out of the place, with not only the tragic loss of life, but the severe loss of jobs, the curtailing of an ordinary everyday life, the serious effects on the economy and tourism, and the fear and mistrust among once peaceful communities that only made things 100% worse than they had ever been?

Why did they bomb public places like bars, restaurants, bus stations etc. were they didn’t know the religion of anyone about to lose their lives or limbs? Catholics, Protestants, any other religion, women, children, babies. And you have the gall to talk about oppression and persecution? If there ever was any it was soon replaced by terror and grief and real poverty.

Another misconception is why how the IRA came to end their campaign. The truth is they knew they were getting nowhere by bombing and murder and never would, their resources were seriously depleted and their recruitment was faltering. They welcomed the peace talks because it was the only way forward.

To put the British Government on a par with the IRA in the N.Ireland conflict in their ‘evilness’ is mind blowingly stupid and suggests a support for terrorists at worst and a wilful ignorance at best.

I know people who seen Corbyn praising the IRA at rallies with their own eyes, not that I expect you to believe that, and I know something else too that I wouldn't put my head on the block to put out there, as much as I'd like to. Scoff all you want, but there it is for what it's worth.

In that article you linked, the author asserts that Corbyn has denounced the actions of the IRA. He's not a very good researcher at all, is he?
On the Steve Nolan show, Corbyn sits there bigging himself up in a collective ‘we’ about the ceasefire, but refuses to answer the question ‘do you condemn what the IRA did’.
On the fifth time, he hangs up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POslQtEkCBY

And answer me this: why would N.I politicians and ministers on both sides and even IRA terrorists insist he had nothing to do whatsoever with the peace process but was simply an avid IRA supporter? What would be the point? Are they all secret Conservative fanatics do you think?

Then why would they need an amnesty? if innocent people weren't jailed and killed then what is there to hide?

https://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...mbers-1193265/

[jet]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Then why would they need an amnesty? if innocent people weren't jailed and killed then what is there to hide?

https://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...mbers-1193265/

DM puts the British Government and the IRA on a par in their evil in his/her post. Do you agree then?

Are you saying that some British soldiers allegedly abusing their positions on a few occasions and some people being wrongfully jailed are on a par then with the IRA's years of terror, murder and destruction?
In that whole post, all you feel inspired to focus on is a section where I say the British Government were in no way on a par with the evil of the IRA.
...and no comment at all about the linked video in which Corbyn refuses to condemn the actions of the IRA and hangs up when pushed....all very telling indeed.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

DM puts the British Government and the IRA on a par in their evil in his/her post. Do you agree then?

Are you saying that some British soldiers allegedly abusing their positions on a few occasions and some people being wrongfully jailed are on a par then with the IRA's years of terror, murder and destruction?
In that whole post, all you feel inspired to focus on is a section where I say the British Government were in no way on a par with the evil of the IRA.
...and no comment at all about the linked video in which Corbyn refuses to condemn the actions of the IRA and hangs up when pushed....all very telling indeed.

I made it clear that the other side weren't innocent bystanders just wanting a peaceful outcome. There were terrorists on both sides of this war. The UVF didn’t just target the IRA, they targeted family members and civilians too and the British Government knew that UDR weapons were being used to arm the UVF. The government were also aware of the importation of arms for loyalists from South Africa and did nothing and we, in little old England didn't get any real information about that. The UVF were protected by both the government and the media.

In 1969 the loyalists were burning Catholic families out of their homes. Eight died 750 were injured and more than 2,000 Catholics were left homeless.

And lets face it, most of Northern Ireland was never affected by the troubles were they? It was West Belfast that took the brunt, especially when it came to Catholic persecution. You say there weren't, I know Irish Catholics from the troubled areas that would say otherwise.

When we talk about the Irish war, all our venom and hate go to the Irish Republican Party and everyone else who isn’t a member of the IRA are treated like victims. There were many victims on both sides of this conflict.

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I made it clear that the other side weren't innocent bystanders just wanting a peaceful outcome. There were terrorists on both sides of this war. The UVF didn’t just target the IRA, they targeted family members and civilians too and the British Government knew that UDR weapons were being used to arm the UVF. The government were also aware of the importation of arms for loyalists from South Africa and did nothing and we, in little old England didn't get any real information about that. The UVF were protected by both the government and the media.

In 1969 the loyalists were burning Catholic families out of their homes. Eight died 750 were injured and more than 2,000 Catholics were left homeless.

And lets face it, most of Northern Ireland was never affected by the troubles were they? It was West Belfast that took the brunt, especially when it came to Catholic persecution. You say there weren't, I know Irish Catholics from the troubled areas that would say otherwise.

When we talk about the Irish war, all our venom and hate go to the Irish Republican Party and everyone else who isn’t a member of the IRA are treated like victims. There were many victims on both sides of this conflict.

Who said the other side were innocent bystanders? Who treats the UVF like victims? I abhor and condemn ALL violence. I condemn the IRA. I condemn the UVF.
This discussion is about the IRA and Corbyn.
But for the record, if it wasn't for the IRA, the UVF would never have emerged and the British Army wouldn't have been in N. Ireland for as long as they were. If it wasn't for the IRA continuing reign of terror there would have been few victims. Where did you read the ****e that the UVF were protected by the government and the media? Did one of your impartial persecuted friends from West Belfast tell you that? Good god, get a grip. (I grew up in West Belfast!)

There was a National Health Service and Unemployment benefit for all, regardless of religion. The big Catholic families were a drain on resources, but the poor from both sides got free milk and free school dinners, free school uniforms. In many cases, free television sets, fridges and those twin tub washing machines! We were better treated than many in the mainland UK or the Republic of Ireland. There were area's of discrimination, but no way on earth to the extent that justified a killing spree of massive proportions that murdered the innocent.

I don't know where you get your info from, but ALL of Belfast was affected by the troubles, the West, East and North actually, less so South Belfast. And Derry and many other towns were viciously hit. You are woefully misinformed. And Belfast city centre, where most of the IRA's car bombs killed ordinary people going about their business.

And what about all the arms and money pouring into the IRA's coffers from the halfwits in America who lapped up the poor downtrodden Catholic propaganda fed to them?

You have no idea, have you, of how many Catholics detest, loathe the IRA with a passion? They indiscriminately murdered anyone, regardless of their religion, so many of our own loved ones were lost too, our children and babies at their hands; they spurred on the growth of Loyalist paramilitary groups who murdered our men and put people out of their homes in retaliation. Did anyone really expect the Prods to sit back and take their murderous campaign without doing anything to retaliate? Really? What sort of la la land do you live in?
Because of the IRA and their 30 year quest for a United Ireland most of us didn't even want, Catholics were murdered from both sides.

I am sick and tired of IRA apologists, who point the finger at everyone else to somehow make their atrocities seem more justifiable. The UVF were murderous bastards who murdered our innocent Catholic ADULTS in retaliation, but at least they didn't blow up innocent woman, children and babies on a regular basis. They went to prison just like IRA terrorists did. There was NO favouritism when it came to murderers. Where DO you get this stuff from?
I am sickened beyond words of the callousness of people who fail to condemn the IRA outright in a discussion about them, end of story. Just like Corbyn failed to condemn them in the video I posted and you have ignored. I can see why you admire him so much. Well, you are welcome to him and his great friend and fellow IRA sympathiser Mc'Donnell. Just leave me out of the misinformed and propaganda - fed warped bull****.