[Mokka]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Thanks for posting that link Vicky. Again Ann states things clearly. If someone is reaching out to doctors for help, we should treat them. She is saying that we shouldn't turn away someone in mental turmoil. Not the same thing as some wish to imply at all.

And yet... When India made the point that people who were trans and couldn't get the medical procedure that helps them become physically what they know they are internally... and often times it cause mental turmoil leading to suicide... Ann argued that others medical procedures are more prevalent. Hmmm.. seems to me a bit of an oxymoron.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Mokka

And yet... When India made the point that people who were trans and couldn't get the medical procedure that helps them become physically what they know they are internally... and often times it cause mental turmoil leading to suicide... Ann argued that others medical procedures are more prevalent. Hmmm.. seems to me a bit of an oxymoron.

That's a good point I never even thought about that, she doesn't want people to have to pay to treat those with a genuine disorder... but line the gays up for conversion therapy! Because being transsexual might not be as serious as having cancer but being gay sure is? (and I'd assume it could actually end up being a greater burden on the NHS in terms of money and time/resources if it was available and commonly seen as something that could be helpful which is how she's tried to position it so at best she's a hypocrite.)
She also said in the article that it could help gay men who want to father children and get married yet she apposes adoption and marriage for gay people (and ignores the fact gay people can have children naturally anyway... as well as ignoring lesbians by putting the focus on fathering, which is very interesting). Her pretext of wanting to 'help' these people is ridiculous, the whole article is twisted actually.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's a good point I never even thought about that, she doesn't want people to have to pay to treat those with a genuine disorder... but line the gays up for conversion therapy! Because being transsexual might not be as serious as having cancer but being gay sure is? (and I'd assume it could actually end up being a greater burden on the NHS in terms of money and time/resources if it was available and commonly seen as something that could be helpful which is how she's tried to position it so at best she's a hypocrite.)
She also said in the article that it could help gay men who want to father children and get married yet she apposes adoption and marriage for gay people (and ignores the fact gay people can have children naturally anyway... as well as ignoring lesbians by putting the focus on fathering, which is very interesting). Her pretext of wanting to 'help' these people is ridiculous, the whole article is twisted actually.

in 2012 the NHS wasn't in the crisis it is now, and also I presume the number of transgender operations rises year on year, it would be good to see the figures

[Ellen]

She believes that people are entitled to get help if they have problems and that should also be afforded to gay people as well, at the time someone who was struggling with been gay or didnt want to be gay was not been given any help. When she worked at Samaritans they did not promote 'it is ok to be gay' to someone who hated or didnt want to be gay. That is why she agreed if gay people were struggling then they should have therapy like everybody else.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Cherie

in 2012 the NHS wasn't in the crisis it is now, and also I presume the number of transgender operations rises year on year, it would be good to see the figures

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.

Originally Posted by Ellen

She believes that people are entitled to get help if they have problems and that should also be afforded to gay people as well, at the time someone who was struggling with been gay or didnt want to be gay was not been given any help. When she worked at Samaritans they did not promote 'it is ok to be gay' to someone who hated or didnt want to be gay. That is why she agreed if gay people were struggling then they should have therapy like everybody else.

Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.



Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

Maybe Ann didn't know this at that time afterall she isn't a doctor,she probably thought it was helpful,maybe she thinks differently now this is the thing ,we DON'T know,unless she is questioned on it,people do change their minds on things, even so all this is way in the past,it doesn't happen now,so don't know what people want to happen.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Maybe Ann didn't know this at that time afterall she isn't a doctor,she probably thought it was helpful,maybe she thinks differently now this is the thing ,we DON'T know,unless she is questioned on it,people do change their minds on things, even so all this is way in the past,it doesn't happen now,so don't know what people want to happen.

I hope that's the case Kaz, I did say earlier on tbf that she could be unaware, I just find it hard to believe that's all given who she is and that she would write an article on it being uninformed without looking into it, but yes it could be true.
I don't want anything to happen, I'm just pointing out why I believe her to be wrong on this because it's something I feel strongly about.

Originally Posted by Ellen

I think she more promote's the idea that gay people should receive help if they ask for it.
Things have changed since then but i still think she would agree that anybody asking for help should receive it.

No, she specifically endorses conversion therapy for them and that doesn't help them. Yes they should receive help but that's not what conversion therapy does.

[Ellen]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.



Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

I think she more promote's the idea that gay people should receive help if they ask for it.
Things have changed since then but i still think she would agree that anybody asking for help should receive it.