[Ammi]

..I don’t profess to understand country black or red bank balances, it’s not my thing at all..but it would feel logical though that a black bank balance could or would be a good thing if the surplus was spent where needed most...if it had a purpose...with this government though, so much money seems to be ‘thrown’ at things like new systems and procedures etc and changing courses...things that just don’t seem to be priority and can often be a money waste because they haven’t been tweaked enough to work effectively...so they can be quite badly thought out or seemingly no thought at all...and nothing or very little throwing in those places in desperate need to be addressed...so a black balance would be a good thing..?..if used correctly and where needed to try to prevent less vulnerable in our world..?...perhaps, because I have very little knowledge of country finance stuff...

[bots]

the most important thing is not if it's black or red but if its being used efficiently and effectively. We can all argue the toss about effective use of money, but that's what elected government is for.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so they can be quite badly thought out or seemingly no thought at all...and nothing or very little throwing in those places in desperate need to be addressed...so a black balance would be a good thing..?..if used correctly and where needed to try to prevent less vulnerable in our world..?

Well this is the point, isn't it... The national debt or lack of it, being in the black / red etc. means very little to any of us or any other average citizen... The only important factor is how the resources we have are actually being used. So even those who are celebrating being out of the red surely have to see... It is completely and utterly meaningless, if the government don't then start to use that money efficiently to improve our towns, our services, and the day to day lives of normal people. Does it really benefit anyone to say "Oh hooray the government has a positive cash flow now!" if nothing is being spent on improvements or at least on stopping further decay. Towns are literally crumbling across the country... Pretty much everywhere outside of London and affluent SoE areas... It's an embarrassment. Roads and public services are a disgrace. The health service is struggling. The disabled and vulnerable (whether people "see it" or not; I envy those who are in a position not to) have been hammered.

So yes it's great if it truly is an indication that things are on the up... But only if that momentum is used to make actual, meaningful changes and improvements? Otherwise I don't really know why anyone is keen to crow about these achievements.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well this is the point, isn't it... The national debt or lack of it, being in the black / red etc. means very little to any of us or any other average citizen... The only important factor is how the resources we have are actually being used. So even those who are celebrating being out of the red surely have to see... It is completely and utterly meaningless, if the government don't then start to use that money efficiently to improve our towns, our services, and the day to day lives of normal people. Does it really benefit anyone to say "Oh hooray the government has a positive cash flow now!" if nothing is being spent on improvements or at least on stopping further decay. Towns are literally crumbling across the country... Pretty much everywhere outside of London and affluent SoE areas... It's an embarrassment. Roads and public services are a disgrace. The health service is struggling. The disabled and vulnerable (whether people "see it" or not; I envy those who are in a position not to) have been hammered.

So yes it's great if it truly is an indication that things are on the up... But only if that momentum is used to make actual, meaningful changes and improvements? Otherwise I don't really know why anyone is keen to crow about these achievements.

..it’s the ‘wasted’ spending really, TS...the ‘pointless’ spending that won’t see improvement for anyone...just one little example of something a friend said to me only last week...with the weather conditions of winter..road markings were being addressed on done on some country roads he was travelling on..but no huge pot holes had been filled, so basically just marking around them, type thing...so crazy.....the NHS yeah..but for me personally recently it hasn’t felt ‘lacking’ at all..I have nothing but huge praise for what we have in this day...but I also know I’m fortunate and blessed in my own experiences as well..it’s not so for everyone, sadly...one over the last few years when I was working more in schools...was ‘Prevent’...a huge government focus and expenditure...so did it ‘prevent’, has it prevented...was it justified and was it needed in justification etc..?....hmmm, no real signs that it was tbh...so ‘wasted money’...rather than have been focused expenditure on ‘actuals’, rather than ‘possibles’...?...a black bank balance still can’t afford to ‘waste’, waste is never really affordable...for the majority, regardless of politics or lifestyle...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Good to get a reminder of why I seldom come here anymore! There's no debate to be had on this forum. Just a load of kindergarden rivalry and bullsiht.

aha

so the thread is not going the way you planned and you resort to insulting forum members (which is against the forum rules)

last time it was the mods and admin's fault now its forum members..

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

aha

so the thread is not going the way you planned and you resort to insulting forum members (which is against the forum rules)

last time it was the mods and admin's fault now its forum members..

To be fair LT, if you're trying to say that this forum ISN'T full of childish squabbles and buhlshett then you are a LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. Ur mom gay!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair LT, if you're trying to say that this forum ISN'T full of childish squabbles and buhlshett then you are a LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. Ur mom gay!

Its no different than QT or the House of Commons in that respect

slagging it off constantly but still using it is rather odd as I am sure you will agree

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its no different than QT or the House of Commons in that respect

slagging it off constantly but still using it is rather odd as I am sure you will agree

It's a dumpster fire, but god damn it it's my our dumpster fire

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that is patently not true

It is true.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/inequa...-poorer-2017-2

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

It is true.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/inequa...-poorer-2017-2

that is not evidence to back up your specific claim i am afraid

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It has worked - he did what he said he would and the tactics worked, you may not like it but it worked

It's not worked if people can't live out their lives.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Are under the illusion there is never hardship, suffering or homelessness under any other party in government?

Nobody has said that, it's the fact that it's increasing dramatically without no let up under the Tories which has been the issue over these 8 or so years that they've been in charge for.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that is not evidence to back up your specific claim i am afraid

So people earning less money than they did 12 years ago is not a sign of how the poorest of society is living nowadays to you? I've seen alot of homeless people on the streets lately and I bet I'm not the only one on here that's seen them either, unless you are fortunate to live in a rich area.

But yeah homeless are not exactly gonna waste money on McDonald's are they as they couldn't afford to be so relaxed.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

aha

so the thread is not going the way you planned and you resort to insulting forum members (which is against the forum rules)

last time it was the mods and admin's fault now its forum members..

Its ridiculous that some people can't start what should be a decent debate on here without the constant refusal to take part in that debate other than to troll it.

You for example, who clearly have a lack of understanding around fiscal policy but still feels a need to join in and make glib insidious remarks in an attempt to derail others, makes a healthy and energetic discussion impossible. It wouldn't be tolerated in real life but for some reason its tolerated on here.

The dislike of others on here is probably more intense than anything I've ever come across online and there's rules in place to ensure people put up or shut up. Its like walking through treacle.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its ridiculous that some people can't start what should be a decent debate on here without the constant refusal to take part in that debate other than to troll it.

You for example, who clearly have a lack of understanding around fiscal policy but still feels a need to join in and make glib insidious remarks in an attempt to derail others, makes a healthy and energetic discussion impossible. It wouldn't be tolerated in real life but for some reason its tolerated on here.

The dislike of others on here is probably more intense than anything I've ever come across online and there's rules in place to ensure people put up or shut up. Its like walking through treacle.

Every single word you've written applies to you yourself, DR, can't you see that? It mystifies me why you come here when you have so many other forums you're always banging on about, with much more intelligent people, apparently. There are plenty of big fish in this little pond already.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its ridiculous that some people can't start what should be a decent debate on here without the constant refusal to take part in that debate other than to troll it.

You for example, who clearly have a lack of understanding around fiscal policy but still feels a need to join in and make glib insidious remarks in an attempt to derail others, makes a healthy and energetic discussion impossible. It wouldn't be tolerated in real life but for some reason its tolerated on here.

The dislike of others on here is probably more intense than anything I've ever come across online and there's rules in place to ensure people put up or shut up. Its like walking through treacle.

Lets face facts you only made this thread to "dazzle us" with your knowledge but the thread actually ended up as a fan thread for how well the Government has actually done and you are a bit butt-hurt about it

lets not dress this up as anything else

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

aha

so the thread is not going the way you planned and you resort to insulting forum members (which is against the forum rules)

last time it was the mods and admin's fault now its forum members..

I did see them say they were going to talk to intelligent people instead. Maybe the intelligent people wouldn't play.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Lets face facts you only made this thread to "dazzle us" with your knowledge but the thread actually ended up as a fan thread for how well the Government has actually done and you are a bit butt-hurt about it

lets not dress this up as anything else

It depends on if mistreating the people is considered doing a "good job."

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Lets face facts you only made this thread to "dazzle us" with your knowledge but the thread actually ended up as a fan thread for how well the Government has actually done and you are a bit butt-hurt about it

lets not dress this up as anything else

I started this thread to discover peoples opinions and why they had those opinions. Most people have little to no interest in fiscal spending. My husbands one of them. Its nothing to be ashamed about, its tedious stuff and yet this is something so important to our future economy and even livelihoods that its worth putting out there before we all go off and blindly celebrate.

So it wasn't about dazzling anyone but about sharing some factual and well researched information that may just spark an interest. Debate has to start with a topic that could have two or more sides and varying influences and it takes persuasive reasoning and logic from all sides to thrash things out.

Taking what I said as trying to dazzle you explains why you came back with taunting and teasing comments that made little to no sense. Was I surprised?!?!

The good news is, team LT is pretty big... try not to let that go to your head

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every single word you've written applies to you yourself, DR, can't you see that? It mystifies me why you come here when you have so many other forums you're always banging on about, with much more intelligent people, apparently. There are plenty of big fish in this little pond already.

How does it, as far as I can see DR is one of the few who can quantify what she is saying and not simply state it as a fact without question.

You don't have to be a genius to do that, all you are attempting to do here is drive people with whom you don't agree away.
It is not for you to say who, how or where people post.

If you have something to counter an opinion with then lets see is occasionally but this refusal to engage opting only to scoff has worn very thin.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh YES - Kizzy herself.

Well that didn't take long did it?

I didn't stand for the tag teaming and the baiting last year and I'm not about to start now.

There were accusations I had run you off the forum, but not from me.

As I said I'm glad you are back but I won't tolerate any of these mocking posts.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Lets face facts you only made this thread to "dazzle us" with your knowledge but the thread actually ended up as a fan thread for how well the Government has actually done and you are a bit butt-hurt about it

lets not dress this up as anything else

Where... Where has the government done well? :/

[bots]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I started this thread to discover peoples opinions and why they had those opinions. Most people have little to no interest in fiscal spending. My husbands one of them. Its nothing to be ashamed about, its tedious stuff and yet this is something so important to our future economy and even livelihoods that its worth putting out there before we all go off and blindly celebrate.

So it wasn't about dazzling anyone but about sharing some factual and well researched information that may just spark an interest. Debate has to start with a topic that could have two or more sides and varying influences and it takes persuasive reasoning and logic from all sides to thrash things out.

Taking what I said as trying to dazzle you explains why you came back with taunting and teasing comments that made little to no sense. Was I surprised?!?!

The good news is, team LT is pretty big... try not to let that go to your head

i was under the impression people had given their opinions. The vast majority seem to be happy that we are in the black. All we ever get is pessimism about this government. This thread was made to make what is a reasonable achievement into something that sucks once again purely because its a Tory government. It stinks

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How does it, as far as I can see DR is one of the few who can quantify what she is saying and not simply state it as a fact without question.

You don't have to be a genius to do that, all you are attempting to do here is drive people with whom you don't agree away.
It is not for you to say who, how or where people post.

If you have something to counter an opinion with then lets see is occasionally but this refusal to engage opting only to scoff has worn very thin.

Hang on a minute... here you are ticking everyone off, but not DR? Her post was pretty rude and mocking of the forum. Again. And you have a go at everyone but her!

Your last paragraph is just stupid. I don't have to follow your rules, Kizzy. Only the forum rules.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i was under the impression people had given their opinions. The vast majority seem to be happy that we are in the black. All we ever get is pessimism about this government. This thread was made to make what is a reasonable achievement into something that sucks once again purely because its a Tory government. It stinks

Not true. It's important to point out HOW it was achieved. Otherwise it's ends justify the means.
Tories brought public services to their knees and burdened the poorest more than the richest. It would be very wrong not to recognize that.