[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

By suggesting that people bringing up forum members should retrieve a harsher punishment was me bringing up drama?!

It was you who quite ironically brought up other forum members in response to that.

oh please stop scuttling away, we all know who you were referring to, you can try the "who me" innocent act, but no body with half a brain cell is buying it.

Goodnight

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

oh please stop scuttling away, we all know who you were referring to, you can try the "who me" innocent act, but no body with half a brain cell is buying it.

Goodnight

I literally responded with i would deserve an infraction in response to your example. What kind of a discussion were you hoping for.

Actually seems that you were hoping id bite and now youre annoyed that i instead agreed with you.

[Vicky.]

A few people are guilty of getting personal over and over in SD. Also entering threads and not even attempting to engage with the actual topic and just making snarky comments or basically..turning the thread into a thread about themselves.

I am kind of hoping if we do do this separate mods for different sections.I don't 'draw the short straw' and get serious debates...the forum is just such a mess and my attempts to sort it out failed...just made people moan more and such and it really did seem like I could not win whatever as people were wanting harsher punishments dished out (for example a straight ban from SD immediately) but when I did do that, I was wrong as what people really wanted is harsh punishments for other members, but not for themselves. Which I guess is understandable but whatever policy is there, it applies to ALL.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A few people are guilty of getting personal over and over in SD. Also entering threads and not even attempting to engage with the actual topic and just making snarky comments or basically..turning the thread into a thread about themselves.

I am kind of hoping if we do do this separate mods for different sections.I don't 'draw the short straw' and get serious debates...the forum is just such a mess and my attempts to sort it out failed...just made people moan more and such and it really did seem like I could not win whatever as people were wanting harsher punishments dished out (for example a straight ban from SD immediately) but when I did do that, I was wrong as what people really wanted is harsh punishments for other members, but not for themselves. Which I guess is understandable but whatever policy is there, it applies to ALL.

Vicky I would be very happy with you in SD, you are reasonable and erudite, and I think any infractions and bans you hand out are pretty fair, even the ones I have received myself which I know are from you..fair dues I deserved them

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A few people are guilty of getting personal over and over in SD. Also entering threads and not even attempting to engage with the actual topic and just making snarky comments or basically..turning the thread into a thread about themselves.

I honestly think this is the biggest issue, obviously anybody will respond if they are brought up directly or indirectly, and obviously a few of their allies will too (that applies for the BB section as well). It will take the thread offtopic for pages, or even days.

I just think this getting a harsher punishment would discourage members from doing it so often.

[Cherie]

How many mods are praying they don't get SD...

[Tom4784]

While we're making changes on our side AND listening to criticism, I think it's only fair to expect some things to change from the members as well.

IF the appeals section is brought back (I've changed my tune on it and I really think Appeals should be brought back) people should have no excuse to bring up infractions or deleted posts in threads as we delete posts to clean threads and bringing either up just means we have to clean the thread again and again. My suggestion that, IF the appeals are brought back, we need an understanding with the members that they'll use that section to voice complaints (SENSIBLE COMPLAINTS!) and make appeals and that if they don't and they bring up infractions in the wrong place, they may be harshly infracted. Is this unreasonable? Members get an area to voice their concerns but they have to agree to keep it to that area and for it to not spill out across the forum.

Secondly, witch hunts against the mods need to stop, I think every long serving mod at this point (but particularly myself, Niamh and Vicky who have been targeted in the past by permabanned members) have experienced what feels like to be attacked from all sides, it doesn't feel good, it's not right and we don't deserve it. On Tuesday, I got into a heated discussion and when I realised it got heated, I decided to remove myself from the discussion, I was actually offline for most of the afternoon as I went to the Cinema (I watched Isle of Dogs, I'd highly recommend it) and to come back to see a deleted thread that had basically descended into insult after insult towards me was tough and it happened again last night.

'Dezzy' is not just a name on the internet, I am a human being, I make mistakes and I'm not perfect and I don't get paid to mod this website, none of us do, this is something we do in our free time. We are not professionals, we just do what we can. I don't want respect, I just want to be treated like a human being. If you are upset with me, talk to me over a PM or if you don't want to talk to me, voice your complaints in a reasonable manner to another mod or admin. I'll admit that I'm acerbic at times, you will never get me acting like a perfect customer service rep (I'll try to do better) but If you talk to me away from the drama and the theatrics and without hostility you will find that I'm a reasonable person that will make time to hear you out. Just talk to me, Don't make me feel like I felt yesterday, I felt like I was being hounded off the forum and no one should feel like that regardless of if they are a mod or a member. If you feel frustrated with me, bring it to me attention in a PM and we'll talk about it, just don't make me feel attacked from all sides. Is that unreasonable? Let me know.

This might kickstart an argument, i hope it doesn't but I felt like I needed to say this. Let's talk like the adults we are.

[Tom4784]

The main problem I have with the different mods moderating different sections approach is , if this were to happen, I'd probably get Chat & Games as my section so what would happen if, late at night when I'm typically the only mod on, a massive argument happens in SD? There would have to be an understanding that there would be some leeway in it.

As for who should moderate SD, the idea I offered in the towers was to pick up two new mods WITHOUT political leanings and thus couldn't be accused of bias and such when it comes to moderating debates.

[Vicky.]

Yeah I would agree that a condition of appeals being brought back really must be that its only used for genuine appeals, when you think an infraction is actually unfair, and explain why you think its unfair, do not just come in ranting.

Last time, we had people starting threads for literally every infraction they got, even when it was clearly deserved, which is ridiculous and timewasting. We also took a lot of abuse, but I think a degree of anger is understandable at times and we did let a lot of things slide in there as it was directed at us, and not members. Kind of like how when people insult me I just tend to delete the post (or sometimes leave it) rather than dish out bans, because I do think that as a mod, I should be able to take it tbh. Sometimes I reply but usually I just leave it alone. Which is kind of nothing to do with what I was talking about tbh but since I have already typed it out I will leave it

Also it would be great if this whole episode made things better. Obviously with so any different personalities and opinions things will get heated sometimes, but it kind of feels like the past few months has just been a huge argument, with pettiness from both sides. Like, a thread cannot be made without at least one member coming in to snipe or bring up previous threads/arguments and such.

Another thing I think is worth mentioning while we are all being adults and getting it all out...is the continuous turning of threads to one topic. As a daft example so it does not look like I am talking about one member or anything (theres actually a fair few who do it anyway) a thread is started about Trump, and someone who is passionate about monkeys comes in and starts talking about monkeys when its nothing at all to do with the thread topic. Then goes into a thread about the russian poisoning and starts going on about monkeys. Yes, some people are very passionate about single issues but, keep that issue to a thread about that issue?

Obviously most of this applies to serious debates mainly.

[T*]

is there a rundown of what’s happened why isn’t there any mods anymore is this the purge

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

y’all really think i’m reading these dissertations

[T*]

*pushes firewire down a set of stairs*

[Vicky.]

Sorry scott, I don't know how to water my post down to a gif or something

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Sorry scott, I don't know how to water my post down to a gif or something

sarcastic bitch

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by T*

is there a rundown of what’s happened why isn’t there any mods anymore is this the purge

Their names are just black now you illiterate little ******

[T*]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Their names are just black now you illiterate little ******

was this intentional or was it just a part of the site breaking

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

While we're making changes on our side AND listening to criticism, I think it's only fair to expect some things to change from the members as well.

IF the appeals section is brought back (I've changed my tune on it and I really think Appeals should be brought back) people should have no excuse to bring up infractions or deleted posts in threads as we delete posts to clean threads and bringing either up just means we have to clean the thread again and again. My suggestion that, IF the appeals are brought back, we need an understanding with the members that they'll use that section to voice complaints (SENSIBLE COMPLAINTS!) and make appeals and that if they don't and they bring up infractions in the wrong place, they may be harshly infracted. Is this unreasonable? Members get an area to voice their concerns but they have to agree to keep it to that area and for it to not spill out across the forum.

Secondly, witch hunts against the mods need to stop, I think every long serving mod at this point (but particularly myself, Niamh and Vicky who have been targeted in the past by permabanned members) have experienced what feels like to be attacked from all sides, it doesn't feel good, it's not right and we don't deserve it. On Tuesday, I got into a heated discussion and when I realised it got heated, I decided to remove myself from the discussion, I was actually offline for most of the afternoon as I went to the Cinema (I watched Isle of Dogs, I'd highly recommend it) and to come back to see a deleted thread that had basically descended into insult after insult towards me was tough and it happened again last night.

'Dezzy' is not just a name on the internet, I am a human being, I make mistakes and I'm not perfect and I don't get paid to mod this website, none of us do, this is something we do in our free time. We are not professionals, we just do what we can. I don't want respect, I just want to be treated like a human being. If you are upset with me, talk to me over a PM or if you don't want to talk to me, voice your complaints in a reasonable manner to another mod or admin. I'll admit that I'm acerbic at times, you will never get me acting like a perfect customer service rep (I'll try to do better) but If you talk to me away from the drama and the theatrics and without hostility you will find that I'm a reasonable person that will make time to hear you out. Just talk to me, Don't make me feel like I felt yesterday, I felt like I was being hounded off the forum and no one should feel like that regardless of if they are a mod or a member. If you feel frustrated with me, bring it to me attention in a PM and we'll talk about it, just don't make me feel attacked from all sides. Is that unreasonable? Let me know.

This might kickstart an argument, i hope it doesn't but I felt like I needed to say this. Let's talk like the adults we are.

All of that seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm certain the mods that are on here a lot get the brunt of a lot of the **** that kicks off and I'm sure it's not easy. Those conditions over the appeals sound completely fair. I wasn't around much when appeals were last in play so I don't know how they really work. The only thing I would say is as long as there is transparency from the mod's parts on why a decision has been made, there should never be any issues.

Literally, my only issue with the forum at the moment is the fact that some members get a much easier time in terms of bans than others do, but I also realise that that seems to be an argument that frequently comes from both sides. You only need to look at what happened at the start of the last CBB with all the India threads to know how quickly issues that actively affect many people on this forum can flare up into pages and pages full of arguments. I'm not saying I'm innocent in that at all, far from it, but there are members who seem to come onto the forum specifically to cause arguments and voice things that they know full well are going to get a reaction. There's a couple in particular that the mods MUST know are pretty disliked by a lot of the forum and it shouldn't be that difficult to see why. I'm not trying to point anybody out in particular, but it is obvious. I think a lot of the aftermaths then revolve around why "that person hasn't been punished as harshly as me", or "why are they still allowed to post here" and if appeals would be a way of rectifying that and make members feel like they're being heard out and listened to, it should be a much more pleasant on site environment.

I don't know if the mods think that the decisions that are made are explained to us so there should be no cause for arguments, but I would respectfully say that it sometimes does not come across that way, and it sometimes feels like our complaints are not being paid attention too and nothing changes. I do wonder if that's a lack of support from the admin to the mods though and seeing as we only have the mods in here to talk to at the moment, it's not much of a jump to reach that conclusion.

Everything I've said here was meant to sound considered and respectful, so I hope it does, if not I apologise.

[Tom4784]

I think when it comes to bans, it's important to remember that bans are dependent on how many points a member has.

I'm going to say something here, I feel like it could lead to an argument but I feel like I need to say it. All the bans from yesterday's drama came from infractions I gave. Niamh and I drew a line in the thread in question after it was cleaned and after seeing the same arguments and attacks were still ongoing after being warned not to, I simply gave everyone that was involved a three point infraction, this was enough to knock some people into a automatic one day ban and for someone else, it was enough to put them over the threshold for a week long ban but not everyone that was infracted got banned because for a few people, it was one of their first offences. I decided to give out those infractions because I wasn't really involved in that argument aside from my name being dragged into it. I gave infractions to people that were opposed to me and people who were arguing for me and all the infractions were because people kept going back to a previously deleted arguments. When I'm modding the thread, the only thing that comes into play is whether or not they are breaking the rules, I'm not tougher on people I dislike and I'm not softer on people I like. Everyone gets the same treatment when I mod.

I say this because I want to give context to the situation and it's a good example of why it feels like some people get banned while others don't. It's all dependant on how many infraction points you have.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think when it comes to bans, it's important to remember that bans are dependent on how many points a member has.

I'm going to say something here, I feel like it could lead to an argument but I feel like I need to say it. All the bans from yesterday's drama came from infractions I gave. Niamh and I drew a line in the thread in question after it was cleaned and after seeing the same arguments and attacks were still ongoing after being warned not to, I simply gave everyone that was involved a three point infraction, this was enough to knock some people into a automatic one day ban and for someone else, it was enough to put them over the threshold for a week long ban but not everyone that was infracted got banned because for a few people, it was one of their first offences. I decided to give out those infractions because I wasn't really involved in that argument aside from my name being dragged into it. I gave infractions to people that were opposed to me and people who were arguing for me and all the infractions were because people kept going back to a previously deleted arguments. When I'm modding the thread, the only thing that comes into play is whether or not they are breaking the rules, I'm not tougher on people I dislike and I'm not softer on people I like. Everyone gets the same treatment when I mod.

I say this because I want to give context to the situation and it's a good example of why it feels like some people get banned while others don't. It's all dependant on how many infraction points you have.

Okay, I understand that. Is that really a fair way for the infraction system to work then? You gave out those infractions yesterday in order to give out the same punishment to everyone, and yet, yes he's my mate so I would argue this, but one person ended up with a harsher punishment despite the fact that you were trying to be fair.

[Withano]

So is it like 9 points = 1 day
10 points 2 days
11 points 1 week
12 points 1 month
?

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by T*

was this intentional or was it just a part of the site breaking

This tbh

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Withano

So is it like 9 points = 1 day
10 points 2 days
11 points 1 week
12 points 1 month
?

9 points - 1 day
15 - 2 days
21 - 7 days
28 - 7 days
35 - 2 weeks
41 - 2 weeks
47 - 3 weeks
53 - 3 weeks
999 - Permaban

One month, three month and permabans are the only bans we choose to give out.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Okay, I understand that. Is that really a fair way for the infraction system to work then? You gave out those infractions yesterday in order to give out the same punishment to everyone, and yet, yes he's my mate so I would argue this, but one person ended up with a harsher punishment despite the fact that you were trying to be fair.

But then, if he didn't have so many points to begin with, it wouldn't have knocked him into a ban. If you get infracted frequently, you'll always be at risk of a ban. It's essentially a snowball system, break the rules too much and you'll always be at risk of being banned.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

9 points - 1 day
15 - 2 days
21 - 7 days
28 - 7 days
35 - 2 weeks
41 - 2 weeks
47 - 3 weeks
53 - 3 weeks
999 - Permaban

One month, three month and permabans are the only bans we choose to give out.

That seems fair tbh... Like it must take some doing to rack up that many

But then like if somebody had 25, finished their week ban, and then got a one-point-infraction for something silly - would that get them another week ban?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Withano

That seems fair tbh... Like it must take some doing to rack up that many

But then like if somebody had 25, finished their week ban, and then got a one-point-infraction for something silly - would that get them another week ban?

Depends on how long the Infraction lasts for, if an infraction expires before they commit their next rule break then their next infraction may not knock them into a ban otherwise they would just be banned again.

The system is basically meant to deter someone from repeated offences, I believe.