[marney]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Saliva!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...n-Jo-body.html

Good news, but going by this bit in the Sun they seemed to have narrowed the suspect down to her flat.

Further tests are being carried out on other swabs taken from 25-year-old Jo's body - and from clothing and possessions in the flat in Clifton, Bristol, where she lived with boyfriend Greg Reardon, 27.

[Mifletz]

Is there any way Tabak could plead "guilty" and thereby avoid a trial? Or is there so much money involved, that his own lawyers won't let him? Or could the holding officers do a "Fred West" on him ie give him a belt to hang himself before the trial, and even help him along?!

[marney]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Is there any way Tabak could plead "guilty" and thereby avoid a trial? Or is there so much money involved, that his own lawyers won't let him? Or could the holding officers do a "Fred West" on him ie give him a belt to hang himself before the trial, and even help him along?!

The concentration of people within that area with seemingly connections can't be just chance. If he does plead guilty does or worse , others get off. He went away with his girlfriend on the 28th so where was his girlfriend at the time of the murder. Jefferies said he saw three people so were they all alive at that point or was Jo taken somewhere else.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

The concentration of people within that area with seemingly connections can't be just chance. If he does plead guilty does or worse , others get off. He went away with his girlfriend on the 28th so where was his girlfriend at the time of the murder. Jefferies said he saw three people so were they all alive at that point or was Jo taken somewhere else.

If he does plead guilty or worse, others get off? 'or worse'...??? !!

What 'others' (plural) get off? Ahhh... I see your trying to bring VT's girlfriend into it as well now!

I'm sure you've forgotten to throw blame onto the local paperboy - when he was doing his rounds that night, collecting his paper money from everyone in that same building. You may as well include him in your killer list - be a shame for you to leave him out really - you know, what with him having 'seemingly connections'.

Deary me.

[marney]

Why change the habit of a lifetime, you were wrong on pretty much every thing you put forward so far.


Such as

I thought by your postings and the content we agreed on more or less the same line, that they were guilty, but now I see I was totally wrong in that assumption and you have more in common with Pyramid.






Certainly touched a nerve with Pyramid who is very "Cerebral" on other sites.

Highly probable that you could be wrong. You have been and with stark regularity up to now so I'd say it was a safe bet that you are wrong!

People of the same ilk as the mutter who murdered Jo are hell bent on defending the suspects? Ahh....... you mean in direct contrast to the way people like you want to hang, draw and quarter anyone (and everyone) that the police take more than a 2nd glance at - without you having been made aware of any hard fast and concrete evidence - happy to label them killers at the drop of a hat!

I'll say it again: we live in a land of innocent until proven guilty - and that applies even to those charges with crimes. Charges can be dropped. Here's something to really blow your mind - it also can apply to those convicted - ever heard of Miscarriage of Justice?
Last edited by Pyramid*; Today at 01:44 AM.
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Touched a nerve here again, must have, both posting at that time of night to get a point across. Interseting though.

[marney]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Is there any way Tabak could plead "guilty" and thereby avoid a trial? Or is there so much money involved, that his own lawyers won't let him? Or could the holding officers do a "Fred West" on him ie give him a belt to hang himself before the trial, and even help him along?!

You might be right here,if Tabak was innocent would he need to be on suicide watch. You would think with his background and expert help etc he would be trying to prove his innocence.

THE SUN
THE man charged with the murder of Jo Yeates has been placed on suicide watch in prison.

Dutch-born Vincent Tabak is being monitored around the clock at Long Lartin jail, where he is on remand.

Staff at the top-security prison have been told to check the 32-year-old every 30 minutes throughout the day and night.

An insider said: "He has been placed under constant observation by the assessment care in custody team.

"He'll be escorted wherever he goes by two staff. Specialist psychiatrists will also be closely monitoring him

Latest news ADDED 27/01/11
Police confirm landlord is still a suspect in murder case despite charging another man.

[Mifletz]

Although some men can be surprisingly stronger than they may appear (eg Christopher Jeffries), and an adrenaline surge can give a man 30% more strength, and even though he's 6'4", Tabak's average arms looks like he'd have really huffed and puffed moving a 75kg clothed female body, if he did do it singlehanded. And moving a 'deadweight' dead body is considerably more difficult than an unconscious live body.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Although some men can be surprisingly stronger than they may appear (eg Christopher Jeffries), and an adrenaline surge can give a man 30% more strength, and even though he's 6'4", Tabak's average arms looks like he'd have really huffed and puffed moving a 75kg clothed female body, if he did do it singlehanded. And moving a 'deadweight' dead body is considerably more difficult than an unconscious live body.

All depends how much time he had I guess.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Although some men can be surprisingly stronger than they may appear (eg Christopher Jeffries), and an adrenaline surge can give a man 30% more strength, and even though he's 6'4", Tabak's average arms looks like he'd have really huffed and puffed moving a 75kg clothed female body, if he did do it singlehanded. And moving a 'deadweight' dead body is considerably more difficult than an unconscious live body.

I'm not entirely sure this is correct? An unconscious body (alive but unconsicous) person would be as difficult to move as a dead body, wouldn't it?

I'd have thought that given a person is unconscious and unable to use their own muscles to aid movement at all, isn't it that which gives rise to the term 'dead weight'? Therefore there would be little difference in the weight between unconscious and dead?

That aside, given what you have mentioned in respect of, "eg Christopher Jeffries" - I'd have thought that a lean, fit, 6'4", 32 years old man, even with the build of VT, would have more chance of lifting 75kgs of dead weight, than a 66 year old man of average height who certainly doesn't appear to have the fittest body shape to him. Can't swear on it, but if the comparison is being made VT vs CJ - I'd opt for VT being able to.

[Mifletz]

Probably.

Though those at the gym where he exercises weekly say that Jeffries is "very strong". And renters from 5 years ago who used to watch him garden, said that he was "stunningly strong".

Both the Englishman & the Dutchman have big strong hands, and asphyxiating the female by hand or by a sock/stocking would pose no problem: once those external carotid arteries are even slightly compressed, unconsciousness and death follow in seconds, poor soul.

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'd have thought that a lean, fit, 6'4", 32 years old man, even with the build of VT, would have more chance of lifting 75kgs of dead weight, than a 66 year old man of average height who certainly doesn't appear to have the fittest body shape to him. Can't swear on it, but if the comparison is being made VT vs CJ - I'd opt for VT being able to.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Probably.

Though those at the gym where he exercises weekly say that Jeffries is "very strong". And renters from 5 years ago who used to watch him garden, said that he was "stunningly strong".

Both the Englishman & the Dutchman have big strong hands, and asphyxiating the female by hand or by a sock/stocking would pose no problem: once those external carotid arteries are even slightly compressed, unconsciousness and death follow in seconds, poor soul.

Now here's a wee thing... Marney logged on very briefly minutes ago, logged off, then you logged on and posted. Coincedentally, Marney had the very same notion of CJ - and with the people who rented from him years ago! How's that for two minds thinking alike!

I still am very much of the opinion that CJ was an easy target for police and had nothing to do with it.

[marney]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Probably.

Though those at the gym where he exercises weekly say that Jeffries is "very strong". And renters from 5 years ago who used to watch him garden, said that he was "stunningly strong".

Both the Englishman & the Dutchman have big strong hands, and asphyxiating the female by hand or by a sock/stocking would pose no problem: once those external carotid arteries are even slightly compressed, unconsciousness and death follow in seconds, poor soul.

Pyramid will contradict everything people post on this forum have you noticed.

[Mifletz]

Given the snowy weather conditions at the time, is it conceiveable that the covered body was dragged there.....on a sledge?! Else why drop it off a mere 3 miles away? Whereas 3 miles is at the limit of one man hauling 165lbs on a sledge over snow-covered tarmac! Instead of looking for a car/van on the Clifton Bridge road, maybe the police should look footage of the bridge's snow-covered pedestrian pavement!

[Mifletz]

If it does not go to trial, how long is it before all the details of the case become available on the public record: days, weeks, months or even years?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

If it does not go to trial, how long is it before all the details of the case become available on the public record: days, weeks, months or even years?

If he pleads Guilty, he will be remanded in custody until sentencing. At the sentencing hearing his defence team and himself will be given the opportunity to make a statement in mitigation, basically saying something in his defence.

If the judge has no reporting restrictions imposed on the sentencing, thats when what the police believe to have happened will come out. Bearing in mind he may have confessed all to the police sometime between initial arrest and the sentencing hearing.

The prosecution recap in court what the police and themselves believe to have occurred, the defence isnt allowed to challenge the prosecutions version. The defendant has at that time agreed to the prosecutions version by virtue of pleading guilty in the eyes of the law.

As for the accuracy of what is stated by the prosecution depends how long in advance they have had to interview him after he decided to plead guilty, co-operating with the police and CPS generally lightens any potential sentence.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

If he pleads Guilty, he will be remanded in custody until sentencing. At the sentencing hearing his defence team and himself will be given the opportunity to make a statement in mitigation, basically saying something in his defence.

If the judge has no reporting restrictions imposed on the sentencing, thats when what the police believe to have happened will come out. Bearing in mind he may have confessed all to the police sometime between initial arrest and the sentencing hearing.

The prosecution recap in court what the police and themselves believe to have occurred, the defence isnt allowed to challenge the prosecutions version. The defendant has at that time agreed to the prosecutions version by virtue of pleading guilty in the eyes of the law.

As for the accuracy of what is stated by the prosecution depends how long in advance they have had to interview him after he decided to plead guilty, co-operating with the police and CPS generally lightens any potential sentence.

Very informative.

The motive (if indeed, there is one - in that if it wasn't premeditated, on the premise that it's not been something that went horribly wrong) will be interesting to hear as well as all the other unaswered questions after her immediate death etc.

Either way, it's bad enough having someone you loved murdered, but for it to be a neighbour and one that they will have possibly known only a few short months since moving in, one can't imagine the 'ifs, but, maybes' that must be going through Greg's head. That question of 'Why' must be a living nightmare for him and of course, Joanna's parents. Tragic whatever way you look at it.

[Mifletz]

Now that the hearing has been set for May and the trial for October, for how much longer legally can CJ be kept on bail, longest case scenario?

Is it possible in the UK to be kept on bail almost indefinitely?

Is VT's calm as unmelted Dutch butter and polite demeanour to the judge at his pending pre-trial possibly 9 months incarceration a sign that he is guilty and has accepted his fate, as a genuinely innocent man would be physically agitated and angry in the extreme?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Now that the hearing has been set for May and the trial for October, for how much longer legally can CJ be kept on bail, longest case scenario?

There is no legally determined time a person can be kept on bail. However if CJ's legal team apply to the courts for the removal of his bail, a judge can determine the reasons for the police keeping him on police bail. The judge can also order the police to terminate the bail within a set time frame if no charges are forthcoming.

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Is it possible in the UK to be kept on bail almost indefinitely?

Yes, he hasnt been charged with an offence yet, once he is there are certain guarentees in law like the right to a trial without undue delays etc. Release on bail has been known to last several months. Not sure what the record for the longest is but is over a year.

He may be on bail for a related or an unrelated offence discovered during the murder inquiry and the CPS may be making a decision as to whether its in the public interest to charge him.

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Is VT's calm as unmelted Dutch butter and polite demeanour to the judge at his pending pre-trial possibly 9 months incarceration a sign that he is guilty and has accepted his fate, as a genuinely innocent man would be physically agitated and angry in the extreme?

Different people react in different way, as you say he may be guilty and have accepted his fate, though wouldnt he have just plead guilty at his initial court appearance? He may have the mind set that he is innocent and this will be proven after due process. He has been described by others purporting to know him as very calm and polite.

[marney]

It has too many similarities to the 74 case , THAT IS THE PROBLEM OR THE ANSWER.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

It has too many similarities to the 74 case , THAT IS THE PROBLEM OR THE ANSWER.

Personally, I don't believe it is related. 36 years is a long time for a person to kill.... then decide to kill again. Plus the 1974 killer would be 36 years older - with all that entail of a person aging by 36 years. I don't think they are connected.

[marney]

MAYBE NOT. SAME GROUP THOUGH REMEMBER POLICE BELIEVE MORE THEN ONE. I know I need not say more to you ,PYRAMID .

[marney]

I am sure you will agree with me on one thing that someday these excuses for human beings will be brought to justice, Pyramid.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

MAYBE NOT. SAME GROUP THOUGH REMEMBER POLICE BELIEVE MORE THEN ONE. I know I need not say more to you ,PYRAMID .

Group? What group?

Originally Posted by marney

I am sure you will agree with me on one thing that someday these excuses for human beings will be brought to justice, Pyramid.

We don't know if it will be plural. The police are not ruling it out but it's not known for certain at this time if there is one person responsible, or more than one. I may of course be mistaken but I thought there was nothing to indicate a definite involvement of more than one person. Far as I'm understanding, the police are yet to determine if it is one or more people.

[InOne]

What 74 case?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

What 74 case?

Glenis Carruthers. here....