[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Glenis Carruthers. here....

Haha no way. The killer must be pretty old by now and probably couldn't even take Joanna. I love how they posted a pic of Joanna with the hair similar to that girl as if that's some kind of link. It's stupid and proves they know fuck all. I mean 1974 for gods sake!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

Haha no way. The killer must be pretty old by now and probably couldn't even take Joanna. I love how they posted a pic of Joanna with the hair similar to that girl as if that's some kind of link. It's stupid and proves they know fuck all. I mean 1974 for gods sake!

I know.. I'm of the same opinion - a young very fit woman who is strong enough for sports that require muscle power (rowing, skiing etc) - if the killer was for example, 30 in 1974, they'd be 66 now and it's highly probably, that on a fitness level alone - Joanna would outmatch them. Remember: this is the woman who according to her parents, initiated new boyfriends with an arm wrestling match.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I know.. I'm of the same opinion - a young very fit woman who is strong enough for sports that require muscle power (rowing, skiing etc) - if the killer was for example, 30 in 1974, they'd be 66 now and it's highly probably, that on a fitness level alone - Joanna would outmatch them. Remember: this is the woman who according to her parents, initiated new boyfriends with an arm wrestling match.

Ha Ha go on Joanna

Well people assume at the site of some 'killer' women just suddenly flop and obey. When they usually give a pretty decent fight. Unless they're bludgeoned or something

[InOne]

What did you find out about all the sports stuff? Paper and that?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

What did you find out about all the sports stuff? Paper and that?

yeah, there was quite a fair bit of mention (I think at the beginning of either her going missing or just around when her body was found), said she was into snowboarding, rowing, (the arm wrestling thing I think was more recent).

In fact hang on..... there's a wiki page set up and (I've just checked) - it mentions on there a few other bits n bobs - though how reliable that is, is as good (or not!) as some of the press stuff I guess.

[InOne]

The wiki is interesting but says nothing new. This case is also interesting, but they won't catch the killer now.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

The wiki is interesting but says nothing new. This case is also interesting, but they won't catch the killer now.

There is the possibility that there is very significant knowledge that we aren't privy to which might mean they are closer than they are letting on - and deliberately witholding info in case it alerts the killer as to them 'being on 'his' tail'..... but I seriously doubt it - there just seems to be too many if, buts, maybes and uncertainty all round.

[marney]

The carruthers case a dark haired man was seen in his twenties at the scene what would that make him now. Remember his last tenants said he was strong, taken off guard, suprised, anything is possible and the body dumped like jo to make a statement. They must be concerned about this case comming out as it could reveal the truth and i would imagine there is a real struggle going on behind the scene against exposing this case. If it does not come out now or no one is arrested or the wrong person taken into custody i feel it is only a matter of time, as it appears the public are becomming more aware and then the **** will really hit the fan.

[Mifletz]

Apart from the Clifton Suspension Bridge, how many other plausible crossing routes are there to get from her flat to where Joanna was found?



And how many other routes are there in total, even the seemingly implausible circuitous ones?

[Mifletz]

Why did the boy friend refer to Joanna as being dead before her body had even been found?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

The carruthers case a dark haired man was seen in his twenties at the scene what would that make him now. Remember his last tenants said he was strong, taken off guard, suprised, anything is possible and the body dumped like jo to make a statement. They must be concerned about this case comming out as it could reveal the truth and i would imagine there is a real struggle going on behind the scene against exposing this case. If it does not come out now or no one is arrested or the wrong person taken into custody i feel it is only a matter of time, as it appears the public are becomming more aware and then the **** will really hit the fan.

A man being seen at the scene of the Carruthers case, doesn't mean that person was necessarily the killer. A man in his twenties.... Mid twenties to late twenties? if so, that would still make the person 60 to 65 years old today and unless they had kept themself in real good shape all these years since 1974 - I still don't feel they'd be a match for a very fit young woman like Jo. The element of surprise is always a possibility but I'm not convinced.

'His last tenants said he was strong, taken off guard, surprised'. This doesn't make sense..... who's last tenant? Who took him off guard? Are you referring to the Carruthers case or to Joanna's? If Joanna's - most reports from CJ's friends all report him as being the opposite - ie: not stong enough.

'I feel it's only a matter of time as it appears the public are more aware......hit the fan'. sorry, but again, this doesn't make much sense - public becoming more aware of what?

I'm not being obtuse - I genuinely don't understand what you are meaning in much of your post.

Originally Posted by Mifletz

Why did the boy friend refer to Joanna as being dead before her body had even been found?

IIRC, the father also referred to Joanna in the past tense before her body was found (said something like, "She had so much life in her" or WTTE). I suppose retrospectively, it could be the unconscious mind working on the distinct possibility that was was dead?

[Mifletz]

No way do a woman's father and her lover refer to a still recently missing person in the past tense. That is how the Soham murderer was caught, by a slip of the tongue: he said "I was probably the last person to see Holly and Jessica alive". How did he know they weren't alive: 'cos he slew them!

Is there any way Jo's father and boyfriend could somehow be in on her death?! I've heard stranger things!!

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

IIRC, the father also referred to Joanna in the past tense before her body was found (said something like, "She had so much life in her" or WTTE). I suppose retrospectively, it could be the unconscious mind working on the distinct possibility that was was dead?

[marney]

He always took great care of his appearance and would dress quite trendily for someone of his age. He was also incredibly fit for someone of his age. He was incredibly strong. This is a quote from his former tenants in jo s flat. The Telegraph.

AN INTERESTING DEVELOPEMENT ON THE TEXT MESSAGE JO SENT. SHE DID INVITE HIM OUT THAT NIGHT AND NOT AS YOU INTIMATED PYRAMID SO SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN THAT PIZZA TO SOMEONE ELSE AS APPARENTLY HE IS NOT A SUSPECT. ANOTHER TWIST TO THIS CASE THOUGH.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

He always took great care of his appearance and would dress quite trendily for someone of his age. He was also incredibly fit for someone of his age. He was incredibly strong. This is a quote from his former tenants in jo s flat. The Telegraph.

AN INTERESTING DEVELOPEMENT ON THE TEXT MESSAGE JO SENT. SHE DID INVITE HIM OUT THAT NIGHT AND NOT AS YOU INTIMATED PYRAMID SO SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN THAT PIZZA TO SOMEONE ELSE AS APPARENTLY HE IS NOT A SUSPECT. ANOTHER TWIST TO THIS CASE THOUGH.

Let's see a lot more of the article, from which you've posted comments above - from the Telegraph with today's date on the article - which refer to CJ.

As detectives continued to question the retired bachelor more details emerged of his early life.

Born in Grimsby he moved to Cheshire with his parents Kathleen and Edward, when he was aged ten.

A pupil at Sandbach Grammar School he excelled academically and studied English at Bristol University.

Neighbours of his late parents said he was especially keen on classical music as a youngster and had an organ in his bedroom as a child.
When his mother died he played the organ at her funeral.

He joined the staff at Clifton College public school in the late 1970s and despite earning a reputation as an eccentric was well regarded among the staff and pupils.

In 1991 he bought a flat belonging to the college in Canynge Road in the highly desirable Clifton area of Bristol and later bought a second apartment in the same building.

Miss Yeates and Mr Reardon moved into the basement flat owned by Mr Jefferies on October 1 this year.

Last night two former neighbours of Jefferies Gary and Kat Anderton, who lived in the flat next door to Miss Yeates said: “When we lived there he was always busy doing stuff around the house. He was very meticulous and liked things just so.

"We would see him working in the garden and his hair would blow on top of his head and stick up on top of his head.

"He always took great care of his appearance and would dress quite trendily for someone of his age. He was also incredibly fit for someone of his age. He was incredibly strong.”

Mr Anderton added: "He was a bit of a meddler and liked to know what we were doing but we never felt threatened by him. I would have let him babysit my daughter if I needed to.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-property.html

Few things here that 'jump out at me' (not in what you personally are saying, but the comments from the article you mention). The article refers to CJ purchasing a flat that was owned previously by the college in 1991 (20 years ago) and later he purchased another apartment in the same building (presumably these flats are the one he lives in now and the one that he lets out, and the one that Jo & Greg rented). No year is given as to when he made this 2nd purchase - he could have purchased it 2 years after his initial purchase for all we know. It could have been purchased 5 years ago, for all we know. The article doesn't make reference to that. Incidental I know, but I make mention of it to show some possible anomolies in the reporting (well...what I feel are! They may not be of course!)

There is no reference as to WHEN this couple, Mr & Mrs Anderton actually lived in the flat next to Jo's. They could have stayed there 15 years ago, 10 years ago. The way the article is worded, it 'reads' as though they stayed there when Jo stayed there. I find that peculiar. Why? Because Jo only moved in there in October 2010. (and not 'this year' as the Telegraph have incorrectly stated). If this couple only moved out 2 months ago, I'd have expected them or the Telegraph to mention that, to give credence to their comments re the 'condition' CJ was in - ie: to show that their comments were based on the present time, rather than (for example) when they lived there 15 years ago. Since there is no reference as to how long ago they lived there - it could have been October this year, could have been October 2001.

Do you see what I mean? It leans a little toward intimating that Mr & Mrs Anderton stayed there during the time Joanna stayed there - which therefore could make the remaining comments re CJ's physicalities being current - when in fact, this description from them could be as they recall him from many years ago. It's misleading at best.

for all any of us know, this couple could have lived there 10 /15 years ago - and a lot can happen to a person's health in 10 / 15 years.

Mr Anderton also states that they never felt threatned by CJ, and to labour the point, also mentions that they would have let CJ babysit their daughter if they had to. Not many couples I know would let a 65 year old man (unless a very close friend /relative) babysit their young child - this makes me think (rightly or wrongly) that they are referring to a time when CJ was much younger than today. Say 50 or younger - and saying he was very fit for his age.

The limited photos that we've all seen recently of CJ, I certainly wouldn't say he dressed trendily for his age, or took great care over his appearance. I'm deeply sceptical by nature (as you'll have guessed).

The text message. Mmm... interesting but I've not caught up on the news a yet today - I'd have to go catch up on what's what.

You are correct though..... yet another twist!

[Pyramid*]

From the Daily Mail ref: text messsage Joanna sent:-

Police are also studying phone records after one of Jo's friends revealed that the landscape architect sent him a text at 8.20pm on December 17.

Jo had invited Matthew Wood out for a drink in the message but because he was at a Christmas party he didn't reply until 9.20pm.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Af52VcK8

Okay. I'm confused. Weren't there reports that this guy didn't reply because he was sleeping? Yet it says here, he was at a Christmas Party. Am I losing the plot entirely !!! (highly possible and highly probable!!).

What it says that she invites him out for a drink: but what is missing is when and where - inviting someone 'out' for a drink usually indicates what it says, 'out' (as opposed to 'come round for a drink). Did the text state 'when' the intended 'invite out' for a drink, was? The following night? Or an invite later in the week?


Timeline from the Guardian.

8.10pm: Yeates was caught on CCTV popping into a Waitrose supermarket in the Clifton Triangle.
8.30pm: She used her mobile phone to ring her friend Rebecca Scott and arranged to meet on Christmas Eve.
8.40pm: At a Tesco Express on Regent Street in Clifton Village, about a quarter-of-a-mile from her flat, Yeates bought a pizza, which is missing. She then visits a nearby off-licence to buy a bottle of cider.

So she goes into 'Waitrose before texting this guy.

She sends him a text before she telphones her friend Rebecca.

Having no reply from this guy, she continues to to purchase pizza, and then into another shop for Cider.

Does this guy drink Cider I wonder? Was she buying in the hope he would join her at the flat? If so - I find that odd....... her boyfriend that she's loved up with and is devoted to, has left only 90 minutes earlier, and she's inviting another guy out for a drink on a weekend that she was telling friends that she was looking forward to being on her own, getting the flat all sorted, making nice Mince Pies etc...- I guess a lot rests on what or where the 'invite for drinks' was based on. That weekend when Greg was away? That night?

curiouser and curiouser!

[icemaiden]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

From the Daily Mail ref: text messsage Joanna sent:-




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Af52VcK8

Okay. I'm confused. Weren't there reports that this guy didn't reply because he was sleeping? Yet it says here, he was at a Christmas Party. Am I losing the plot entirely !!! (highly possible and highly probable!!).

What it says that she invites him out for a drink: but what is missing is when and where - inviting someone 'out' for a drink usually indicates what it says, 'out' (as opposed to 'come round for a drink). Did the text state 'when' the intended 'invite out' for a drink, was? The following night? Or an invite later in the week?


Timeline from the Guardian.

8.10pm: Yeates was caught on CCTV popping into a Waitrose supermarket in the Clifton Triangle.
8.30pm: She used her mobile phone to ring her friend Rebecca Scott and arranged to meet on Christmas Eve.
8.40pm: At a Tesco Express on Regent Street in Clifton Village, about a quarter-of-a-mile from her flat, Yeates bought a pizza, which is missing. She then visits a nearby off-licence to buy a bottle of cider.

So she goes into 'Waitrose before texting this guy.

She sends him a text before she telphones her friend Rebecca.

Having no reply from this guy, she continues to to purchase pizza, and then into another shop for Cider.

Does this guy drink Cider I wonder? Was she buying in the hope he would join her at the flat? If so - I find that odd....... her boyfriend that she's loved up with and is devoted to, has left only 90 minutes earlier, and she's inviting another guy out for a drink on a weekend that she was telling friends that she was looking forward to being on her own, getting the flat all sorted, making nice Mince Pies etc...- I guess a lot rests on what or where the 'invite for drinks' was based on. That weekend when Greg was away? That night?

curiouser and curiouser!

Did she buy cider? no mention of receipts only for pizza. The girl who worked in bargain booze said she had no recollection of seeing Joanna that evening.

Joanna and Greg was having a party on Tuesday evening, maybe she was checking out the prices and what was available.

Maybe she took the cider from the pub with her. Maybe someone asked her to get him/her a pizza, she dropped it off to them and the rest is history.

[marney]

I see where you are coming from , but the parents said they feel the police are holding back information I would have doubts about them been involved. There seem to be too many other unsolved bits of information to make it viable. I don't believe they would have been holding Chris Jefferies for such a long time if they had nothing at all on him . The text message might bring out more clues and the police have said they will be looking at mobile phones and masts in the area to see if witness statements hold up.

[Mifletz]

There may have been a conspiracy by several people to kill her eg if she had knowledge of a Clifton pedo ring including even policemen and judges; if her parents & brother had molested her as a child & she was threatening to spill the beans unless she inherited everything; if her fiance had found out/suspected that she was seeing other men and he engaged his friends to rough her up/seduce her/test her, and it all went horribly wrong etc etc, and all in cahoots with the landlord who'd let them in.

I think the police suspect something conspiratorial like this, but they have to tread exceedingly carefully.

Have the police taken DNA from her family, including the mother?

Originally Posted by marney

I see where you are coming from , but the parents said they feel the police are holding back information I would have doubts about them been involved.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Mifletz

There may have been a conspiracy by several people to kill her eg if she had knowledge of a Clifton pedo ring including even policemen and judges; if her parents & brother had molested her as a child & she was threatening to spill the beans unless she inherited everything; if her fiance had found out/suspected that she was seeing other men and he engaged his friends to rough her up/seduce her/test her, and it all went horribly wrong etc etc, and all in cahoots with the landlord who'd let them in.

I think the police suspect something conspiratorial like this, but they have to tread exceedingly carefully.

Have the police taken DNA from her family, including the mother?

All that sounds pretty crazy and farfetched lol

[marney]

As I said she could have been lonely, just because you are in the hub of things means nothing and some people feel even more isolated. A platonic friendship maybe. But maybe more to this then we know. I didn't catch all the news tonight but no doubt you will be pleased that CJ is apparently going to be released.

[icemaiden]

Originally Posted by marney

As I said she could have been lonely, just because you are in the hub of things means nothing and some people feel even more isolated. A platonic friendship maybe. But maybe more to this then we know. I didn't catch all the news tonight but no doubt you will be pleased that CJ is apparently going to be released.

If she was that lonely would she not ring BF and have a chat, Or her mother or best friend?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by marney

As I said she could have been lonely, just because you are in the hub of things means nothing and some people feel even more isolated. A platonic friendship maybe. But maybe more to this then we know. I didn't catch all the news tonight but no doubt you will be pleased that CJ is apparently going to be released.

[marney]

Exactly thats what i think she droped that pizza off. The note sent to the pub maybe not be a hoax but a list of pizza toppings for the person she was buying the pizza for. I hope the police have had a good look at the writing.

[marney]

When she phoned her friend she said she was at a loose end, boyfriend away lonely maybe.

[marney]

Sorry Pyramid you might be disappointed It is Mr Jeffries and his lawyers that are asking and pushing for his release and expecting it to be imminently. The police are saying they have no intention of doing so. What have they got on him I wonder. Latest news. So the plot remains the same, interesting.

Five years ago the Andertons lived there so I would not expect him to lose much of his strength in that time. WE WERE QUESTIONING HIS STRENGTH NOT HIS CHARACTER SO WHY COME UP WITH ALL THE REST OF THE STUFF ITS NOT RELEVANT TO HIS STRENGTH WE WERE QUESTIONING IF HE WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO DO IT.