[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I hear what you're saying, but: some women have always done those things. Right down to going to war, and bareknuckle fighting. Not the majority, but some. Always.

If you think Charlotte is bad, you should read some accounts of 18th century London life.


The 21st century did not invent uncouth, bawdy women. It just gave one of them a tv show

I'll take your point there.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Videostar

My issue is that femininity is dying, there hardly no feminine women left anymore...or what would be naturally thought of as femininity, im saying women have been told by womens groups in recent years that the only way to be truly equal to men is to act just like them..thats not women changing naturally that's being bread into them.

But what you say about how children have been brought up to be like, I think that's dying out too, and that's also a tragic thing.

I would say it is the other way around. I would say that there has been enormous pressure on women to conform to a very narrow view of feminine behaviour and attitudes, for a very long time. It's shifted and changed in terms of the exact parameters of that femininity, but that pressure has been there throughout most of the modern era, and backed up by law for a good deal of that. In recent decades there has been a lessening of social control of women. And without that social control, it is becoming apparent that many of what we thought of as natural distinctions, were in fact artificial and required some women to silence or constrain part of who and what they were.

Women are not all the same. They do not all have the same proclivities and inclinations. Some women really do want to fight. And some women really do have a passion for taking apart engines.

And some women really do like gorgeous clothes and some really love being a good wife.

What you seem to want, is for 'women' as a whole to act in a particular way, or within a particular set of parameters.

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I would say it is the other way around. I would say that there has been enormous pressure on women to conform to a very narrow view of feminine behaviour and attitudes, for a very long time. It's shifted and changed in terms of the exact parameters of that femininity, but that pressure has been there throughout most of the modern era, and backed up by law for a good deal of that. In recent decades there has been a lessening of social control of women. And without that social control, it is becoming apparent that many of what we thought of as natural distinctions, were in fact artificial and required some women to silence or constrain part of who and what they were.

Women are not all the same. They do not all have the same proclivities and inclinations. Some women really do want to fight. And some women really do have a passion for taking apart engines.

And some women really do like gorgeous clothes and some really love being a good wife.

What you seem to want, is for 'women' as a whole to act in a particular way, or within a particular set of parameters.

All I want is men and women to remain different and proud to be the gender they are...and not behave like Charlotte.

[DanaC]

*chuckles*

ok. But one last point: acting in a way that doesn't conform to your idea of what femininity is, doesn't mean someone isn't acting to their own conception of what femininity is. It doesnt mean they are ashamed of their gender. It just means they conceive it differently.

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

*chuckles*

ok. But one last point: acting in a way that doesn't conform to your idea of what femininity is, doesn't mean someone isn't acting to their own conception of what femininity is. It doesnt mean they are ashamed of their gender. It just means they conceive it differently.

I'll have to respectfully disagree, by going against what (not just me) but what most would think of as femininity they are disrespecting womanhood, i'd go as far as to say they have lost all femininity.

[DanaC]

That puts me in mind of this:

With Honor, Virtue, Truth, announcing war;
Survey with me, what ne'er our fathers saw, `
A female band despising NATURE's law,
As "proud defiance" flashes from their arms,
And vengeance smothers all their softer charms.

I shudder at the new unpictur'd scene,
Where unsex'd woman vaunts the imperious mien;
Where girls, affecting to dismiss the heart,
Invoke the Proteus of petrific art;

From The unsex'd females: a poem, addressed to the author of the Pursuits of literature, written in the late 18th Century, in response to an influx of female writers and political thinkers.

Femininity has been declared endangered or dead many times. It is nothing new.

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That puts me in mind of this:




From The unsex'd females: a poem, addressed to the author of the Pursuits of literature, written in the late 18th Century, in response to an influx of female writers and political thinkers.

Femininity has been declared endangered or dead many times. It is nothing new.

Thanks for posting that, very interesting that this has been a debating point for so many centuries.

[DanaC]

I think somewhat unlikely you and I will ever agree on a definition of 'womanhood'

Thanks for the discussion. It's been really interesting

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I think somewhat unlikely you and I will ever agree on a definition of 'womanhood'

Thanks for the discussion. It's been really interesting

I agree, it has been interesting, and thankyou for being intelligent about our debate and not rude like so many others might have been.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Videostar

Thanks for posting that, very interesting that this has been a debating point for so many centuries.

For as long as people have put pen to paper (or stylus to wax) the old have complained that the young are out of control and have lost respect, and (mainly) men have complained that women aren't what they used to be, and gone are the days when they were truly feminine.


* I should add a sprinkling of women complaining that men aren't what they used to be, and gone are the days when they acted like real men

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Videostar

I agree, it has been interesting, and thankyou for being intelligent about our debate and not rude like so many others might have been.

[Videostar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

For as long as people have put pen to paper (or stylus to wax) the old have complained that the young are out of control and have lost respect, and (mainly) men have complained that women aren't what they used to be, and gone are the days when they were truly feminine.


* I should add a sprinkling of women complaining that men aren't what they used to be, and gone are the days when they acted like real men

Don't get me started about men who wear ear rings and makeup, we'll be here all night.

[reece(:]

Voice over woman said it's Rylan and AJ

[Videostar]

Thank god voice over woman is wrong.

[reece(:]

Thick bitch.

[reece(:]

BOTS loves Lauren

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by reece(:

BOTS loves Lauren

[reece(:]

-didn't watch Brookeside-

[Vanessa]

Ben!

[Kazanne]

Aw Brookie,best soap ever

[Scream]

Omg, the blonde woman with glasses who's always there is hidden behind the black girls and she keeps trying to poke her head round to be on camera

[Saph]

Gracie and the girls are back

[Brother Leon]

This woman is truly disgusting..just..I can't.

[smudgie]

Charlotte.."I am so damp"

[Jack_]

Dean really sounds like that guy that always calls in to talk to Emma during the phone room think he was on yesterday too