[qximn8]

I agree, it's not fair for people to knock Sam for the way she dresses or talks, but it's also not fair to assume that if women don't like Sam, then it must be because of that.

No women actually admits that the reason they dislike Sam is because she wears skimpy clothes and is honest about being horny. They all come up with fake reasons and what's more they actually convince themselves that these fake reasons are the real reason why they dislike her.

At first a lot of women convinced themselves that Sam wasn't a very nice person, but when you asked them to give a specific example they would look blank before eventually coming up with someone along the lines of '...er, ... just the way she goes on,' i.e. they couldn't give a specific reason.

Then when it became obvious that there was no evidence to support their claims that Sam isn't a nice person some women claimed she should go because she is boring and offers nothing to the house. But when have house mates ever been voted out because they were boring? People always vote out the housemates they hate/dislike, and in Sam's case it was no dfferent.

You've convinced yourself that Sam is 'false and manipulative'. Okay then, give me specific examples.

[qximn8]

And as Sam was up against Derek and Roberto I'll give you examples of Derek and Roberto being false and manipulative:

Derek:
1) Writing SS on Makosi's feet to try to manipulate the voting against Sam and Saskia.
2) Slagging off Saskia behind her back.
3) Last week he was always acting like a total bitch/spoilt brat, eg1. having a go at Sam in the kitchen when she told Roberto he could go now, eg2. having a go at Maxwell in the garden when they were doing the quiz, but since he has been up for nomination that side of his personality has no longer been evident.

Roberto:
1) Personally I don't think Roberto is as bad as many people believe. All I can come up with is that after he was involved with slagging Saskia behind her back. Generally though, he tends to have confronted people to their face.

Anyway, if you were evicting someone based on being false and manipulative and had to use objective evidence to support your case then Derek would have been voted out by an absolute mile.

But he wasn't. So that suggests to me that people weren't voting based on 'falseness and manipulativeness.'

The fact of the matter is I can't think of one woman who wears skimpy clothes and is open about her horniness who is popular with other women. And until this fact changes women will have to accept that their own opinions and attitudes are what is currently responsible for the double standards that they have to endure.

[James]

I think the dislike for Sam came from the fact that she acted coquettishly in the house around the male housemates. Maybe female viewers see that as demeaning to women in general?

I'd say that is where the antipathy for Sam comes from.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by qximn8

No women actually admits that the reason they dislike Sam is because she wears skimpy clothes and is honest about being horny. They all come up with fake reasons and what's more they actually convince themselves that these fake reasons are the real reason why they dislike her.

At first a lot of women convinced themselves that Sam wasn't a very nice person, but when you asked them to give a specific example they would look blank before eventually coming up with someone along the lines of '...er, ... just the way she goes on,' i.e. they couldn't give a specific reason.

Then when it became obvious that there was no evidence to support their claims that Sam isn't a nice person some women claimed she should go because she is boring and offers nothing to the house. But when have house mates ever been voted out because they were boring? People always vote out the housemates they hate/dislike, and in Sam's case it was no dfferent.

You've convinced yourself that Sam is 'false and manipulative'. Okay then, give me specific examples.

I fail to see why I should have to justify myself to you, and I object to you just assuming that women are lying about their reasons for disliking Sam. Why do I think she was being manipulative? Because as James said she was acting coquettishly (sp)? around all the guys, making pathetic attempts to turn people on (such as pretending to masturbate in the box - she admitted that she wasn't really doing it). She made no real effort to actually get to know people in the house - especially the girls, apart from makosi right towards the end of her time in the house, because she clearly thought that if she got all the boys on side she wouldn't need to make friends with the girls. False? Pretending to be friendly with people and then slagging them off behind their back. No, she's not the only person in the house to do that, but I didn't like it in her, and I don't like it in others.

By the way, I wear a lot of mini skirts and what you would probably class as skimpy clothes, and I have a lot of female friends.

Again, I really don't see why I should have to justify myself to you, and I also don't like the implication that I'm lying when I give my reasons for not liking someone. We are all entitled to an opinion, not just you.

[Ruth]

Oh, and I forgot, seeing as you seem to know why all women dislike Sam, how many exactly have you spoken to about it?

[qximn8]

I fail to see why I should have to justify myself to you

This is a discussion board. Why make comments if you don't want people to respond to them?

[qximn8]

and I object to you just assuming that women are lying about their reasons for disliking Sam.

I'm not basing my opinion on a 'hunch' so in that respect it's not an assumption. It's an opinion based on a logical analysis of comments made by several women and the associated emotions that came with those comments.

Why do I think she was being manipulative? Because as James said she was acting coquettishly (sp)? around all the guys

She was acting that way because she was genuinely horny. If she had of been totally uninterested in the blokes romantically and still acted that way then yes she would have been manipulative, but she totally fancied Anthony so good on her for making a move.

You could possibly criticise her for moving onto Maxwell once it became obvious Anthony wasn't interested, but that's not being manipulative. That's just having low standards and being prepared to accept second best. But when all you're after is something short term then that's totally fair enough.

making pathetic attempts to turn people on (such as pretending to masturbate in the box - she admitted that she wasn't really doing it).

She blatantly was pleasuring herself in the box and you're totally naive if you believe her denial. Very few women would admit to that publicly. She'd been totally horny for a couple of weeks so when presented with the privacy of a cardboard box she was obviously going to take advantage of it.

She made no real effort to actually get to know people in the house - especially the girls, apart from makosi right towards the end of her time in the house, because she clearly thought that if she got all the boys on side she wouldn't need to make friends with the girls.

Sam isn't a very talented public speaker. She's more of a person who sits in on a conversation and listens, without contributing much to the conversation herself. That doesn't make her a bad person, though.

And she made an effort with Saskia.

As for Lesley and Vanessa, when two people are bullying you (actually, one bullying you and the other cowardly backing up the bully in private) only a fool would want to spend time getting to know them.

That leaves Makosi, who you acknowkledge that Sam became friends with once Saskia, Maxwell and Anthony had bombed her out, and finally Mary. I didn't see much of the first week so I can't really comment on Mary so maybe you're right on that score and Sam should have made more of an effort with Mary.

False? Pretending to be friendly with people and then slagging them off behind their back.

This never happened. It's simply another example of your dislike of Sam influencing your objectivity.

[Lance]

I'd agree but I hate Max half as much as I hate Michelle.

[qximn8]

Oh, and I forgot, seeing as you seem to know why all women dislike Sam, how many exactly have you spoken to about it?

Of the top of my head, six.

Fair play to one lass who whilst she admitted that she found Sam's laugh annoying, she nevertheless bore her no malice towards Sam and also acknowledged that she is a nice person.

Not the most entertaining housemate maybe, and you wouldn't necessarily want her to win, but it's not a crime to be unentertaining.

[Lance]

Totally agree with that.

I know this is going a bit ioff topic..sorry,but I think that Sam wasn't the most entertaining but she deserved to b ein there a lot more than some of the gimps left.

[Ruth]

First to respond to your other post, I have no objection to answering your questions. I just don't like being called a liar.

Originally posted by qximn8
I'm not basing my opinion on a 'hunch' so in that respect it's not an assumption. It's an opinion based on a logical analysis of comments made by several women and the associated emotions that came with those comments.

But I'm not one of the women you spoke to, so you shouldn't just assume that you know why I think the way I do.

Originally posted by qximn8
She was acting that way because she was genuinely horny. If she had of been totally uninterested in the blokes romantically and still acted that way then yes she would have been manipulative, but she totally fancied Anthony so good on her for making a move.

I never criticised her for genuinely fancying Anthony. And as for saying that she was genuinely horny, I must apologise as you obviously seem to know exactly what was going on in her head as well.

making pathetic attempts to turn people on (such as pretending to masturbate in the box - she admitted that she wasn't really doing it).

Originally posted by qximn8
She blatantly was pleasuring herself in the box and you're totally naive if you believe her denial. Very few women would admit to that publicly. She'd been totally horny for a couple of weeks so when presented with the privacy of a cardboard box she was obviously going to take advantage of it.

I'm confused. So what you're saying is, she won't publicly admit to pleasuring herself inside the box? But she did it, and said that she was doing it (whether or not she actually did or she was pretending is a matter of opinion) on national tv. You refer to the privacy of her box - she knew that the show is watched by millions of people, so it's not that private is it? She was happy enough to say what she was doing then!

Originally posted by qximn8
Sam isn't a very talented public speaker. She's more of a person who sits in on a conversation and listens, without contributing much to the conversation herself. That doesn't make her a bad person, though.

And she made an effort with Saskia.

I agree. And if you read some of posts that I have made on other threads, I have said that I felt sorry for Sam as I felt that she didn't have the ability interact with others very well. I have also said that I would have liked to have taken her aside (if I had been in the house) and said that there is no need to try so hard to make people to like her. She clearly has low self confidence and low self esteem, and I have said that I felt sorry for her because of that and also that I felt sorry for her because of the way Lesley (and Vanessa to a lesser extent) treated her. I also said that I hope she will not be exploited now that she is out of the house.

Originally posted by qximn8
As for Lesley and Vanessa, when two people are bullying you (actually, one bullying you and the other cowardly backing up the bully in private) only a fool would want to spend time getting to know them.

I quite agree. Although I don't think I have ever criticised Sam for not wanting to be friends with Lesley and Vanessa.

False? Pretending to be friendly with people and then slagging them off behind their back.

This never happened. It's simply another example of your dislike of Sam influencing your objectivity. [/quote]

She was friendly with some people, and then went into the diary room and called them morons (I think, or the word may have been idiots, not sure).

Originally posted by qximn8
Fair play to one lass who whilst she admitted that she found Sam's laugh annoying, she nevertheless bore her no malice towards Sam and also acknowledged that she is a nice person.

In fairness, although I didn't like Sam, I have also said that I felt sorry for her and obviously I don't bear her any malice.

Originally posted by qximn8
Anyway, if you were evicting someone based on being false and manipulative and had to use objective evidence to support your case then Derek would have been voted out by an absolute mile.

But he wasn't. So that suggests to me that people weren't voting based on 'falseness and manipulativeness

I can't say why other people were voting, obviously. Personally I did not vote at all until this week, when Derek and Roberto were up. I voted to get Derek out. I have not voted prior to this (in this series).

I don't want to be unfriendly about this. The point I wanted to make was that you seemed to be telling me why I didn't like Sam, and when I gave you my reasons, you suggested that I was lying about them, which I wasn't. I don't bear Sam any malice or ill will, and I didn't dislike her because she claimed to be horny, or because she wore skimpy clothes.

[Ruth]

Apologies for the layout of my previous post - the end of a long day at work, and I probably didn't use my 'quotes' correctly.

qximn8, there are a few things I wanted to add. However, this will most probably be my last post on this thread, as I see little point in going round in circles with you on this, especially as it seems that you will never admit that there is possibility that you could be wrong, and although you don't know me from Adam, you seem determined that I am lying; I don't know why.

First of all, I have already stated my opinions on this matter - I have been truthful and stand by what I said.

Secondly, I find it indescribably rude that you have basically said that I am lying when I gave my reasons for not liking Sam, when you don't really know the first thing about me.

Thirdly, I find it indescribably arrogant that you assume that you know what's going on in my head, and that I 'just can't admit it to myself'.

The fact is Sam has left the house, and to be honest, my feelings about her aren't strong enough either way for me lie about why I didn't like her or for me not to be able to admit the truth to myself.

But how would you like it if you came on here and said, "I don't like (insert name of housemate here) because of this reason," and someone responded and said that you were lying and the real reason you didn't like the person was such and such, but you just couldn't admit to yourself? I think a lot of people would find that offfensive.

Let me assure you that at nearly 33 years old, I am way way way way past the stage of disliking someone because they are pretty, or have a nice figure or are a bit flirtatious. I don't remember actually ever going through such a phase, but if I did, I'm WAY past it.

You say that you spoke to six girls about Sam, one of whom was fortunate enough to give an answer that satisfied you. So that leaves five others. Now I don't know how many female viewers didn't like Sam, or how many voted to evict her (I didn't - I voted for the first time this week, to get Derek out). However, I am sure that the number is far too high for you to claim that any female who felt the way I did about Sam is lying (or deluding themselves) based on the opinions of five females you have spoken to. You are claiming to know the minds of at least several thousands of women, based on the opinions of these five females.

Allow me to give the names of some of my favourite housemates from previous series of Big Brother:

BB1 - I liked Craig (who I thought was a worthy winner), Anna, Mel and Claire. Mel and Claire were two very attractive women. Mel was accused of flirting and using her womanly charms (for want of a better phrase) to get ahead in the house, and was unjustifiably booed when she came out. Although I didn't watch an awful lot of BB1, I felt that Mel was a good housemate, seemed a nice girl and it was a shame when she went. I also really liked Claire, but I guess she never really had a chance of staying long in the house as she entered it about halfway through the series.

BB2 - didn't really start watching until near the end, so can't comment on the ones that went out earlier in the series. However, I really liked Brian, Helen and Paul. Helen - another very attractive girl - had a boyfriend when she went into the house and got together with Paul during the series. I admired her for pursuing her feelings about Paul (thank goodness she did - it was clearly the real thing as they are still together), and it seems that she is one of BB's best loved housemates ever.

BB3 - I really liked Alex and actually thought he should have won. However, I also really liked Kate - who was very attractive, flirted with Spencer while they were both in the house, and generally hung around more with the boys than the girls. My favourite female BB3 housemate was Sophie, who I think is one of the most attractive girls ever to enter the BB house. She seemed a very sweet, genuine and nice girl. She got criticised for flirting with Lee, who had girlfriend before he entered the house, but I never criticised her. It was clearly the real thing for them both as they are now married and having a baby.

BB4 - I liked Jon, Fed, Nush and Anoushka. Anoushka, who you will remember if you watched it, was an extremely attractive girl, who for some unfathomable reason was voted out after just one week. I thought that was a real shame for the series, as she would have been a great housemate if she had stayed in longer, and had she survived that eviction process to stay in the house, I really believe that she might have had a good chance of winning. I also liked Nush, who came under fire from some people for flirting with Scott Turner while they were in the house, because she already had a boyfriend.

BB5 - Favourite housemates were Dan (who I would have liked to have won it), Michelle, Shell and Vanessa. Michelle got a lot of bad press for her relationship with Stuart (another couple who are still together), and was called a bunny boiler amongst other things. I actually thought she was a strong, independent woman, and I thought their relationship was very sweet. I also thought Shell was great - she was very attractive with a super figure, and she spent a fair amount of time wearing very little - or indeed nothing at all! Vanessa was a very pleasant and intelligent girl - very very pretty - and I thought that she certainly did not deserve any of the booing that she got when she came out.

I find it a real shame that I can't really warm to any of the female housemate in BB6 (and not that many of the male ones while we're on the subject). I did like Mary and wished she hadn't gone after only a week. However, I really like Orlaith and hope that she is one of the ones who enters the rest of the house and becomes a proper housemate. She seems sweet, sensible and honest. She is also undeniably attractive, with an amazing figure. If she joins the rest of the housemates I hope that she becomes the first newbie to make it to the final week.

So you see, I really don't dislike someone because they are good looking or flirtatious.

You may well think I'm not being honest - I actually am being honest, but if you choose not to believe me, fair enough.

[qximn8]

Let me assure you that at nearly 33 years old, I am way way way way past the stage of disliking someone because they are pretty, or have a nice figure or are a bit flirtatious. I don't remember actually ever going through such a phase, but if I did, I'm WAY past it.

Generally I find that old women are just as prone to jealous bitching as young lasses are.

N.B. I don't regard 33 as old though. I'm just saying that age is irrelevant in my experience.

[ThaGazBoi]

oh right lol cuz my mum is 35 and shes not old..just yet

[Kore]

how is this old thread back here....

[ThaGazBoi]

someone renewed it i spose

[Nikkos]

how can you compare that...thing...maxwell to the fabulous michelle.

[qximn8]

I never criticised her for genuinely fancying Anthony.

You criticised her for acting coquettishly around all the guys though. Anthony was obviously her first choice but after a few days she definitely saw Maxwell as her safety net.

Strangely enough, a few years ago I would have been extremely negative towards lasses who followed this policy (that of acting moderately interested in a lad as an insurance policy in case your first choice doesn't come to fruition), but now I think good on them. Single men don't put all their eggs in one basket, so why should single women be any different?

And as for saying that she was genuinely horny, I must apologise as you obviously seem to know exactly what was going on in her head as well.

So you reckon Sam wasn't horny? I think you're clutching at straws now. None of us may know the exact intricacies of exactly what goes on inside Sam's head, but to make the judgement that she was horny is hardly a controversial statement to make.

If you want specific instances as to how I arrived at my conclusion then the instance when Sam was saying that she desperately needed sex was when my suspicions regarding her horniness were first aroused...

[ThaGazBoi]

exactly !!

[Ruth]

This thread is ages old Kore, as I wrote my previous post on it, while Orlaith was still in the secret garden.

qximn8, I've made my point - I don't know why you want to resurrect such an old thread now. I was truthful when I said what I said, and I don't see any need in going over and over old ground.

[ThaGazBoi]

awwww

[Kore]

Originally posted by nikkos12345
how can you compare that...thing...maxwell to the fabulous michelle.

maxwell was the best and funniest housemate this year.

funnier than michelle and all.

[ThaGazBoi]

maxwell was pathetic

[Dan_]

Why bring up this old relic of a thread?

[ThaGazBoi]

No idea