[Z]

I don't think you could ever rehabilitate somebody so badly messed up; there would be no point in trying. Plus, every person is an individual, somebody so crazed would more than likely have been affected by a few incidents, or one big one (i.e. the war thing mentioned earlier) that set them off. People are individuals, there's not really much of a correlation between one person's experiences in life to cause them to be a nutjob and another. I think, in cases like this, the death penalty is necessary.

[Ninastar]

I can remember this. I lived in america at the time and I lived about 45 mins away from washington DC so they made sure that everyone was safe. We werent allowed outside at all during school and people who walked had to get the buses. There was even this one boy who lived right next to the school and they made him get the bus. they were really serious and protective about it.

[Ninastar]

and I feel that he kinda deserves it. He killed these people for no reason and caused thousands and thousands to be scared to leave there own home.

[InOne]

I see all the seriousness has gone from this topic then! lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by InOne

I see all the seriousness has gone from this topic then! lol

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?

Why end one life of a mad man when you can prevent it the lives of others by finding out what sets these kind of people off. Maybe he had a mental breakdown and his conscience might have returned, he would be suffering then anyway.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?

Then perhaps we should focus on world hunger and the like instead of wasting time debating on whether to kill a killer or lock him up? Seriously, I know he did wrong, but it worries me when so many people not directly involved need to bay for blood to make them feel more secure in bed at night. Throw him in a cell and leave him rot. It's cheaper and he may realize what he has done and will suffer through it.

Christians for the death penalty. That's another chuckle. I never knew ''Thou shalt not kill'' had a footnote.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Stu

And perhaps we should focus on world hunger and the like instead of wasting time debating on whether to kill a killer or lock him up? Seriously, I know he did wrong, but it worries me when so many people not directly involved need to bay for blood to make them feel more secure in bed at night. Throw him in a cell and leave him rot. It's cheaper and he may realize what he has done and will suffer through it.

Christians for the death penalty. That's another chuckle. I never knew ''Thou shalt not kill'' had a footnote.

I have not specifically said that I just said it feels like justice perhaps. The Christian response is, as you know, that we do not judge and must ultimately forgive as we have been forgiven but even though Jesus was against individual murder i "think" he still was down with mosaic law during his life on earth and that included cap pun. dont quote me on it though.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I have not specifically said that I just said it feels like justice perhaps. The Christian response is, as you know, that we do not judge and must ultimately forgive as we have been forgiven but even though Jesus was against individual murder i "think" he still was down with mosaic law during his life on earth and that included cap pun. dont quote me on it though.

No worries, that was not aimed at you in particular. I just remember someone saying it from way back.

It is funny on that note, however, to note the contradiction between the mosaic law of capital punishment and the cornerstone of the entire mosaic law, the ten commandments. Contradiction #123456.

Gave me a hoot, anyway.

[WOMBAI]

There are all sorts of laws in place these days to protect people with mental health problems - they would never execute someone who had such issues!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

There are all sorts of laws in place these days to protect people with mental health problems - they would never execute someone who had such issues!

I am sure they have done before and will do again.

[WOMBAI]

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?

we have no answer other than lock them up and hope they die

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?

Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

having to spend your whole life in prison is a worse punishment than execution anyway imo

[Z]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

having to spend your whole life in prison is a worse punishment than execution anyway imo

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zee

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.

Well whats the alternative Jail or Capital punishment?

I take your point on taxpayers money being spent, personaly I'd like to see chain gangs and have them work for their keep!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zee

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.

People make assumptions that because Capital Punishment is quick it must be cheap. It's not. It's at least as expensive, if not more, than housing a prisoner in a cell and giving him three meals a day for the rest of his life.

Have you any idea even what the medical personnel who are giving him the injection have to be paid? Or the price of commissioning such an injection? Or all the legal red tape that has to be bypassed? Besides, like I said earlier, it costs far, far, far more to keep certain inmates in jail.

And to be honest, I think the rational you outlined in the first sentence is very odd. I know they done bad things, and I am not an apologist for them, but you cant throw them into a black hole like rats and forget they ever existed. Locking him up might at the least achieve some revelation and sufferance in his mind. Hanging him will just quench the public and the medias thirst to see even more blood to feel some retribution.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

I originally asked the question - what did you suggest we did with these killers - and above is your response. Not very productive - only provacative and accusing. Stop trying to imply - I started this. I wasn't saying it was the only thing that could be done - only stating that I believed (my opinion) it was the best way of dealing with such people - that as a tax-payer I could understand that tax-payers in the States would not want to fund his keep for the rest of his life.

[Z]

I wasn't thinking of the lethal injection though, I was thinking about good old fashioned hanging; is there even a cost to that beyond paying the hangman? There is no alternative to jail or capital punishment, I just don't think either are a solution to the problems of society - essentially I'm whining :P.

So what if the prisoner feels remorse? It's not going to revive the person they killed/prevent the crime they committed, it's not a comfort to the family of the victim(s) and showing remorse won't claim back the years they spent in jail. It's not even guaranteed that a prisoner is going to regret committing a crime. The primary argument against capital punishment is obviously the potential for a wrongly accused person to be sentenced to death - while you can't argue that that could happen, and has done, I can only help but feel that the only people that this has happened to are people who have made themselves look extremely guilty, or victims of a cover-up/conspiracy - either way, it's just a case of wrong place, wrong time. It's just my view though, I think that capital punishment should be used when dealing with serious cases of violent murder, mass murder and other things on that kind of level.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zee

I wasn't thinking of the lethal injection though, I was thinking about good old fashioned hanging; is there even a cost to that beyond paying the hangman?

There would be. Enormous amount goes into killing someone my friend. Besides which, if we did bring back Capital Punishment, you can bet your bottom dollar it would be the jab, not the rope. Bringing it back would be a challenge enough that would upset quiet a lot of people. I don't think we would choose an archaic method of execution.

Originally Posted by Zee

It's not going to revive the person they killed/prevent the crime they committed, it's not a comfort to the family of the victim(s) and showing remorse won't claim back the years they spent in jail. It's not even guaranteed that a prisoner is going to regret committing a crime.

A lot of that can be said for Capital Punishment as well though. And it may not turn back the time but if the prisoner does feel remorse, he will have claimed some of his humanity back which at the least can't be a bad thing.

Plus, while I am not religious, we are also forgetting a huge sector of this debate - that being the whole 'playing god' argument which would upset people too.

[WOMBAI]

Why should we care if he suffers? Did he care when he killed those people? All those people who had lives ahead of them - snuffed out for ever. Why should his quality of life bother us? Maybe he was evil, deluded or inadequate - who knows or cares. He was obviously deemed to be mentally compentent enough to be held accountable for his crimes - and therefore deserved the punishment. As a rule - I am actually against capital punishment - but I do believe there are exceptions - and mass murder is one of them - when proven, beyond doubt, that the person committed the crime.

Not about blood lust - but about principle and deterrent.

[Stu]

Your giving another boring argument quiet a lot of people give. This has nothing to do with me caring about his suffering and that's not what my argument is based around. I never said that. Perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to where I did.

Quiet a lot of prisoners suffer far, far more in prison. That's why things like suicide watch exists.

[Z]

I have little to no knowledge of the costs of hanging; but surely beyond paying for the services of the hangman and maintenance of facilities, there is nothing else to pay for? It's hardly archaic, it was still in use in Britain in the 1950s. While I agree with you in cases of a crime of passion, or a crime that isn't as serious as murder where the murderer/criminal will undoubtedly feel remorse; but I'm talking about deranged lunatics such as the Washington Sniper, people who didn't know their victims and therefore aren't nearly as likely to experience remorse.

The 'playing god' thing comes down to personal beliefs though, anybody who objects to it isn't going to change their mind.

Just to reiterate, I'm only applying the capital punishment thing to deranged nutters like the Washington Sniper; I don't think capital punishment is a better alternative to jail, just for people like that, it seems like a waste to try and rehabilitate them.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zee

I have little to no knowledge of the costs of hanging; but surely beyond paying for the services of the hangman and maintenance of facilities, there is nothing else to pay for?

The amount of red tape and legal documents, regardless of method, is huge. Simply staging an execution is very costly. And I really don't think we would be hanging people if it were brought back. It would be lethal injection all the way. These days it sort of has the 'cleaner' if you like of all the images of execution.

I think I agree with you on one thing, and that is that there really is no method or help available for such a sick individual, but like you use that as the basis of your opinion, I say if nothing is going to help him anyway, just throw him in a cell. I don't really think killing more people really helps improve things, even in extreme cases.

Here's a nice suggestion : Why not take it out of the hand's of the government and leave it up to unanimous vote by the victim[s] family[s]? That sounds far more logical to me and even though I still don't think you should have to see another person killed to feel 'avenged' in some way it seems to make a great deal more sense.