[bananarama]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

where do you get your values from?


(hint, i bet they are Christian)

I get my values from Tesco's. Sometimes two for the price of one......

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bananarama

I get my values from Tesco's. Sometimes two for the price of one......

oops

you mentioned the T word

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Christian vaules are a load of rubbish really.

See, I think thats disrespectful. There are a good portion fo the world population, that practice christian values. They are not your, but I think you can see, that they promote, love and respect.
So to call them rubbish, just because its not what you believe in, is just not right.

However, I dont think I would associate the UK, with christian values. Thats my problem.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

See, I think thats disrespectful. There are a good portion fo the world population, that practice christian values. They are not your, but I think you can see, that they promote, love and respect.
So to call them rubbish, just because its not what you believe in, is just not right.

However, I dont think I would associate the UK, with christian values. Thats my problem.

Depends what you look at as 'Christian' values really. Some of the so called values are awful.

[BB_Eye]

Xenophobia in the church, no surprise there.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Depends what you look at as 'Christian' values really. Some of the so called values are awful.

I think a distinction needs to be made between christian values and how those values are enacted and practised by professed christians in everyday life. The same could be said about most faiths where a certain way of life is proscribed in the scriptures and teachings, but followers simply pay lip service to the values and do their own thing.

However this country IS predominantly Christian and it is christian values and compassion that have allowed so many immigrants of different cultures and faiths to settle here, sometimes to the detriment of the indigenous population who feel their own culture is compromised.

I speak as a christian who has lived for many years in the Middle East, where I had the courtesy to respect the Islamic faith and to accept laws and traditions with which I disagreed. Furthermore Middle Eastern countries do not accept criticism or dissension from foreigners living on their soil - no such thing as freedom of speech there. And quite rightly since,after all, nobody dragged me there against my will and I was free to leave at any time. I did not expect, nor did I get, any compromises for my cutural differences and perferences, and no allowances were made for my inability to speak the native language properly. No expensive translators laid on by the governments there I can assure you.

The greatest myth of this century is that multiculturalism is a good thing when it is quite obvious it is not working. Diametrically opposed cultural values can only cause civil unrest,resentment and violence amongst different ethnic groups, and I am not talking about the indigenous population, but intra-ethnic prejudice. Throwing together peoples from a multitude of different cultures does not create a multicultural society. It simply creates a society in which a multitude of cultures lead separate lives! The only way for a society to live in complete harmony is to share common goals, aspirations, beliefs and values. How on earth is this possible with so many different cultures jostling for limited resources and with different agendas? Some serious rethinking needs to be done as to how best to assimilate all cultures into society whilst at the same time respecting the indigenous population's wishes to retain as paramount its christian heritage and traditions.

So before slagging off this country that has thrown its borders open to the world, remember it is BECAUSE we have christian values that we have done so, and at least we are trying to live up to those values.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

I think a distinction needs to be made between christian values and how those values are enacted and practised by professed christians in everyday life. The same could be said about most faiths where a certain way of life is proscribed in the scriptures and teachings, but followers simply pay lip service to the values and do their own thing.

However this country IS predominantly Christian and it is christian values and compassion that have allowed so many immigrants of different cultures and faiths to settle here, sometimes to the detriment of the indigenous population who feel their own culture is compromised.

I speak as a christian who has lived for many years in the Middle East, where I had the courtesy to respect the Islamic faith and to accept laws and traditions with which I disagreed. Furthermore Middle Eastern countries do not accept criticism or dissension from foreigners living on their soil - no such thing as freedom of speech there. And quite rightly since,after all, nobody dragged me there against my will and I was free to leave at any time. I did not expect, nor did I get, any compromises for my cutural differences and perferences, and no allowances were made for my inability to speak the native language properly. No expensive translators laid on by the governments there I can assure you.

The greatest myth of this century is that multiculturalism is a good thing when it is quite obvious it is not working. Diametrically opposed cultural values can only cause civil unrest,resentment and violence amongst different ethnic groups, and I am not talking about the indigenous population, but intra-ethnic prejudice. Throwing together peoples from a multitude of different cultures does not create a multicultural society. It simply creates a society in which a multitude of cultures lead separate lives! The only way for a society to live in complete harmony is to share common goals, aspirations, beliefs and values. How on earth is this possible with so many different cultures jostling for limited resources and with different agendas? Some serious rethinking needs to be done as to how best to assimilate all cultures into society whilst at the same time respecting the indigenous population's wishes to retain as paramount its christian heritage and traditions.

So before slagging off this country that has thrown its borders open to the world, remember it is BECAUSE we have christian values that we have done so, and at least we are trying to live up to those values.

I think I was probably on about the more hardcore values, such as the nuclear family, views on homosexuality the many Christians differ on today. I agree about the myth of Multiculturalism and clearly it does not work, but letting it happen was probably more the goverment than the church. And it's not all cultures and religions that have problems adapting. Catholics, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs ect have flourished over here, fitting in and contributing to society. And i'm talking about the immigrant Catholics, not the English ones.
The Church is at a major decline anyway, with attendances and all that, plus with the introduction of women vicars, many clergy are leaving and the younger generations are simply not interested. Also the new wave of American fundamentalist that has swept over here. But you are almost making it sound as if the Church actually has a say in what goes on in the UK today, it really doesn't, it is confused about it's own vaules and Christians are torn between all sorts of things. It could be easy to say that is has all happened because people stopped going to church or lost their 'Christian values' but that would be assuming that there was a golden age of religion, where almost everyone went to church, which is simply not true, obviously the numbers have increased but only because we've started recording them.
So the church does not and never will speak for the UK, the reason we have multiculturalism is not because of good christian values, it is because of the goverment, and the economy in the 40's 50's and 60's. Since then there has been a steady increase and we are left where we are today, a pretty much godless nation, faced with problems we never thought would arise.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by angus58

I think a distinction needs to be made between christian values and how those values are enacted and practised by professed christians in everyday life. The same could be said about most faiths where a certain way of life is proscribed in the scriptures and teachings, but followers simply pay lip service to the values and do their own thing.

However this country IS predominantly Christian and it is christian values and compassion that have allowed so many immigrants of different cultures and faiths to settle here, sometimes to the detriment of the indigenous population who feel their own culture is compromised.

I speak as a christian who has lived for many years in the Middle East, where I had the courtesy to respect the Islamic faith and to accept laws and traditions with which I disagreed. Furthermore Middle Eastern countries do not accept criticism or dissension from foreigners living on their soil - no such thing as freedom of speech there. And quite rightly since,after all, nobody dragged me there against my will and I was free to leave at any time. I did not expect, nor did I get, any compromises for my cutural differences and perferences, and no allowances were made for my inability to speak the native language properly. No expensive translators laid on by the governments there I can assure you.

The greatest myth of this century is that multiculturalism is a good thing when it is quite obvious it is not working. Diametrically opposed cultural values can only cause civil unrest,resentment and violence amongst different ethnic groups, and I am not talking about the indigenous population, but intra-ethnic prejudice. Throwing together peoples from a multitude of different cultures does not create a multicultural society. It simply creates a society in which a multitude of cultures lead separate lives! The only way for a society to live in complete harmony is to share common goals, aspirations, beliefs and values. How on earth is this possible with so many different cultures jostling for limited resources and with different agendas? Some serious rethinking needs to be done as to how best to assimilate all cultures into society whilst at the same time respecting the indigenous population's wishes to retain as paramount its christian heritage and traditions.

So before slagging off this country that has thrown its borders open to the world, remember it is BECAUSE we have christian values that we have done so, and at least we are trying to live up to those values.

Good read! Completely agree! Unfortunately many people attempt to abuse that hospitality and Christian faith! They don't want to live alongside other faiths, and show mutual respect - they want their own faith to be given prominence - they want control. You cannot integrate people like that!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by angus58

I think a distinction needs to be made between christian values and how those values are enacted and practised by professed christians in everyday life. The same could be said about most faiths where a certain way of life is proscribed in the scriptures and teachings, but followers simply pay lip service to the values and do their own thing.

However this country IS predominantly Christian and it is christian values and compassion that have allowed so many immigrants of different cultures and faiths to settle here, sometimes to the detriment of the indigenous population who feel their own culture is compromised.

I speak as a christian who has lived for many years in the Middle East, where I had the courtesy to respect the Islamic faith and to accept laws and traditions with which I disagreed. Furthermore Middle Eastern countries do not accept criticism or dissension from foreigners living on their soil - no such thing as freedom of speech there. And quite rightly since,after all, nobody dragged me there against my will and I was free to leave at any time. I did not expect, nor did I get, any compromises for my cutural differences and perferences, and no allowances were made for my inability to speak the native language properly. No expensive translators laid on by the governments there I can assure you.

The greatest myth of this century is that multiculturalism is a good thing when it is quite obvious it is not working. Diametrically opposed cultural values can only cause civil unrest,resentment and violence amongst different ethnic groups, and I am not talking about the indigenous population, but intra-ethnic prejudice. Throwing together peoples from a multitude of different cultures does not create a multicultural society. It simply creates a society in which a multitude of cultures lead separate lives! The only way for a society to live in complete harmony is to share common goals, aspirations, beliefs and values. How on earth is this possible with so many different cultures jostling for limited resources and with different agendas? Some serious rethinking needs to be done as to how best to assimilate all cultures into society whilst at the same time respecting the indigenous population's wishes to retain as paramount its christian heritage and traditions.

So before slagging off this country that has thrown its borders open to the world, remember it is BECAUSE we have christian values that we have done so, and at least we are trying to live up to those values.

we are a predominately secular population and it is our educated values and HUMAN compassion (not to mention market forces) that has allowed us to accept different cultures....and WE do on the whole ALL share common HUMAN values, goals and aspirations....not really much to do with being christian at all...most religions share the same kinds of morals and values anyway

[Wildcat!]

See the thing is, if I immigrate in some country, its not the religions that I worry about. I want to adhere to the values of the society. And since religion is so divided in here, thats not the thing I would focus on. I think thats silly. And ironically, it mirrors extremists.

I think we can talk about values nowadays, without bringing religion into it.

I f i went to backwards societies, like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or Israel, and I chose to immigrate there, I would focus mainly on their religious values, because its their law. BUt the thing is I wouldnt choose to emmigrate in a country like that.

[InOne]

Israel is quite divided though really, go to Tel-Aviv it's like being in any city, it's the settlers on the West Bank that cause the problems, those Extreme Orthadox Jews

[lily.]

Just to clarify... would all existing UK residents be forced to adhere to Christianity as well?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by lili

Just to clarify... would all existing UK residents be forced to adhere to Christianity as well?

have you not had the forms through?

maybe you are a credit risk

[lily.]

Oh, trust me, I am a credit risk.

[andyman]

Lets find them witches, me and LT will hunt them down!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by andyman

Lets find them witches, me and LT will hunt them down!

they are on itv at lunchtimes

[andyman]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they are on itv at lunchtimes

So true.

[kcmik]

One thing in britain that everyone is priviledged too is that we are all entitled to support what religion we want. Personally, i don't believe in any of it, coz if there was a god, allah, jesus whatever, there would be NO wars, therefore peaceful and safe life for everyone. ONE thing i DONT support is freedom of speech if you dont like the way we live in this country, go back to your own country.......you have no freedom of speech here! That evil man (sorry, i dont know the blurts name) people get put in prison for not paying council tax etc, an you got terrorists like him, preaching in the street what they want to do to us! joke. He is still here, scaving off our taxes.....thats religion??????

[ange7]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...an-values.html

All new immigrants should accept Britain’s traditional Christian values and be willing to adapt to them, according to a prominent clergyman.

He also called for an end to the segregation of Muslims in British cities, which he warned provides a breeding ground for extremists.


This links in with that BNP video of the ghettos in London that many on here pretended to think was good in an attempt at being all 2010.

views?

"This links in with that BNP video"
All I learnt from this post is that leather dude goes to sites that show BNP videos.... what a mother *******ing surprise.
mahahaha

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ange7

"This links in with that BNP video"
All I learnt from this post is that leather dude goes to sites that show BNP videos.... what a mother *******ing surprise.
mahahaha

it was a link to a thread originally on DS i am afraid, sorry to ruin your conspiracy...

[ange7]

BNP changed their name to DS? thanks for the head up leather guy. You really are in the know when it comes to this stuff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ange7

BNP changed their name to DS? thanks for the head up leather guy. You really are in the know when it comes to this stuff.

aha

Sydney

early in morning.

either drugs or drink

post when you are straight

[ange7]

lol 12:53am ..."early morning"
hehe you even sound like ned flanders. ... though I'm not sure how many race wars he tried to start on tibb. So what's you next thread going to be "are Muslims human?"

ps love that you stared getting personal so soon. Very Christian of you.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by ange7

lol 12:53am ..."early morning"
hehe you even sound like ned flanders. ... though I'm not sure how many race wars he tried to start on tibb. So what's you next thread going to be "are Muslims human?"

ps love that you stared getting personal so soon. Very Christian of you.

aww welcome back

[ange7]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

aww welcome back

:P hiya