[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am absolutely no fan of Ed Miliband rhino, but people are listening to him on this issue,rightly or wrongly.
Cameron should have had the foresight, he is the PM after all,to ensure he was the one seen to be taking the initiative,not allowing Miliband to gather in so much ammunition.


As I said above, Cameron is the PM now, he has to distance himself from the Murdoch empire with credibility,inherited or not, it's something he should have done now, but need to do instantly.He is the PM, watching old newsreel back, I bet Margaret Thatcher would never have got caught out like this.

The expenses scandal was an issue that Brown was sort of left to clean up and do something about, few believe he did or has, he paid the (in part) price for that with a drumming at the ballot box,this issue could well turn into Camerons equivalent of that scandal and he isn't seen to be doing much at all, being made to drag his heels to every thing that needs to be done.

The poll rating is the main one though, there are many disgruntled voices in the Conservative party who are still asking how on earth did Cameron not win an overall majority in the easiest election ever for an opposition party to win,with a reckless Labour govt in deep trouble and a PM in Brown who had become a standing joke.
The fact that the Conservatives only polled 36% in the election and have rarely been above that since in the polls,is further damage to Cameron, this scandal and his at best only fair responses to the issues as yet may take his poll ratings down from low to even lower and that will be seen as massive failure by the Conservative party.

I feel sorry for Cameron, he has the deficit to deal with, the economy is still in poor shape,the recovery still extremely fragile, inflation higher, he has the added noose of Nick Clegg and his band of two faced deceivers around his neck, yapping like ankle biters all the time and now this scandal.

All the more reason to take full and assertive control, put all old loyalties aside and be the PM not like an assistant who has to be led by others to do and say the right things 'eventually'.
Failure to do so, will just continue to fuel the negatives as to his judgement,his reasons and moreso his competence.

He is the PM of the UK and sadly on issues like this all eyes and ears are on him,by having to be dragged near kicking and screaming to do anything he unfortunately makes himself an easy target for those who would bring him down, even worse for him is that many in his party have wanted that since he failed to get an overall majority and has then had to cosy up to the Lib Dems to be able to govern at all.

Had he not been able to get their support, he would have been gone a short time after the election.

Unfortunately Cameron as not a strong leader and imo is to the Conservative party what Brown was to new labour. Comparing him to Thatcher is like comparing a lamb and a lion and he does not have the charisma or the popularity that got Blair elected in the first place. It's a shame because this could have been an opportunity to show certainly the younger generation that there was another (and better) government than Labour. I fear this won't be the case as Cameron is just not up to the job and that's a fact. Even if he was amazingly dynamic it would be a struggle at every step as the polls show the public are willing him to fail rather than be hopeful he may not.

Politics is politics Joey, and unfortunately that will mean all focus will be on Cameron and not on the despicable and disgusting behaviour of the people responsible for this NOTW exploitation

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by rhino

Unfortunately Cameron as not a strong leader and imo is to the Conservative party what Brown was to new labour. Comparing him to Thatcher is like comparing a lamb and a lion and he does not have the charisma or the popularity that got Blair elected in the first place. It's a shame because this could have been an opportunity to show certainly the younger generation that there was another (and better) government than Labour. I fear this won't be the case as Cameron is just not up to the job and that's a fact. Even if he was amazingly dynamic it would be a struggle at every step as the polls show the public are willing him to fail rather than be hopeful he may not.

Politics is politics Joey, and unfortunately that will mean all focus will be on Cameron and not on the despicable and disgusting behaviour of the people responsible for this NOTW exploitation

I easily agree with all that, somehow I still feel Rebekah Brookes has shocks coming and likely will fall. I also think the Police may find themselves far more scrutinised as more gets revealed as to their antics in this too.


I hope Cameron wakes up, gets the BSkyB deal put on the back boiler, with all this going on there is no way at present the Murdochs could be seen as appropriate people to own fully BSkyB. There must be ways to put all that on hold pending all these investiagtions and inquiries.

I then hope Cameron himself, distances himself from those he called friends,it's clear if Cameron asked if any more was to come out on this as to Andy Coulson,if Coulson said no, then he was deceived and lied to by Coulson, he owes him no loyalty whatsoever.

As you say politics is politics and the only friends you have there are fair weather friends, wanting to be there with you on the way up and while you are at the top but who desert you the moment you start to fall.

Cameron needs to learn that and do so with Coulson, Brookes and the Murdochs.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I easily agree with all that, somehow I still feel Rebekah Brookes has shocks coming and likely will fall. I also think the Police may find themselves far more scrutinised as more gets revealed as to their antics in this too.


I hope Cameron wakes up, gets the BSkyB deal put on the back boiler, with all this going on there is no way at present the Murdochs could be seen as appropriate people to own fully BSkyB. There must be ways to put all that on hold pending all these investiagtions and inquiries.

I then hope Cameron himself, distances himself from those he called friends,it's clear if Cameron asked if any more was to come out on this as to Andy Coulson,if Coulson said no, then he was deceived and lied to by Coulson, he owes him no loyalty whatsoever.

As you say politics is politics and the only friends you have there are fair weather friends, wanting to be there with you on the way up and while you are at the top but who desert you the moment you start to fall.

Cameron needs to learn that and do so with Coulson, Brookes and the Murdochs.

.............in an ideal and just world................unfortunately for Cameron he has the unenvied task of holding the highly influential media executives accountable to appease the public while at the same time so desperately needing those executives on side so as try and keep what shaky amount of popularity he has - would take some real brain power to handle that problem and as I said before Cameron...............................poor guy, I do feel sympathy for him, too busy trying to clear up **** to have time to concentrate on any policies, but hey, problem is he's part of the **** we're given in politics these days. I don't think we could do much worse if we had an 'Apprentice' style reality show election

[lostalex]

I don't see what this has to do with David Cameron (or nick clegg)... Did not most of this happen under Labour's "rule"? This has been going on for quite some time.

This is a problem with Scotland Yard, not the government. It's not Cameron's job to catch criminals, it's Scotland Yard's job, right?

Cameron/Parliment make the laws, it's Scotland Yard's job to enforce them.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i don't see what this has to do with david cameron (or nick clegg)... did not most of this happen under Labour's "rule"? this has been going on for quite some time.

Thats the point, just another inherited corruption surprise, surprise. But he is been judged on how he handles it, because that goes with the job........unfortunately for Cameron these dilemmas he is being faced with may just require showing some balls and you can't show what you havn't got

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by rhino

Thats the point, just another inherited corruption surprise, surprise. But he is been judged on how he handles it, because that goes with the job........unfortunately for Cameron these dilemmas he is being faced with may just require showing some balls and you can't show what you havn't got

Well it's hard to show balls when the british public castrates all of it's politicians long before they reach any positions of power...

Say what you will about American, or Italian, or Russian politicians, but they arn't castrated.

[joeysteele]

Well yes, this did happen under Labours rule but they did have an inquiry and there was also a police investigation, the problem there was that the police found little to answer as to it, one Journalist was jailed and the police afterwards refused to re-open any investigations as they said no new evidence had been forthcoming, it appears they didn't even look for any at the time now though.

So Labour had an inquiry and police investigation, suggested another but then took the police at their word that no further case was to answer, the police for their part took Murdochs News of the World at their word too that it was all down to a rogue journalist.

Where Labour failed and did so badly was then not to take a stronger look at the press and how they work, thereby also taking no further action at all despite the rumblings from some quarters, John Prescott,their own MP for one.

Since the police were satisfied,so wrongly were the Labour govt. and hence it was shelved/closed because people believed there was no new evidence,which of course has been revealed now that the police had plenty of new evidence but for some reason at that time would not re-investigate.

The matter as to Cameron and this scandal, is that he appointed someone to an important post, knowing there were doubts over him, he was advised by many people not to appoint him,he did, this puts him in this issue also as to what he know, what he asked, what was he told, when he was told, what he ignored and what he may even have ignored that could have been very relevant.
It is likely we will have to wait for whatever happens with Andy Coulson before we get the answers to all those things.

Once a PMs judgement is questioned though, he has to answer quickly and with credibility, Cameron has skirted the issues and that is why such a focus remains on him.
He is running the Country, if his judgement is not proven to be sound, that is worrying for all.

Both Conservative and Labour have courted the Murdoch empire, mainly Tony Blair who actually won him over,really the Sun never supported Labour and neither did Murdoch, they supported Blair only, once he went as PM they reverted back to the Conservatives but both parties are to blame for the rpess getting out of hand, they wanted to be seen to be supported by the Murdoch press and thereby let things slide badly.
The chickens have now come home to roost and things hpefully will change now dramatically as to the press and politicians.

It is however again the vagueness with which Cameron talks as to the press and any new regulations, he has to make a major stand now against the Murdoch empire.H ehas to pull all stops out and be seen to pull all stops out and therefore being on his publics side to stop any way he can the BSkyB takeover fully by Murdoch.

As for Nick Clegg,well he is in effect an irrelevance as to decent politics too, but he and his party keep this govt. in power and if they were to see their party getting any further tarnished by this scandal then Clegg could pull the rug fully from under Cameron's feet and withdraw from the coalition which certainly would mean the end of this govt and after the ensuing election the end of Cameron too.

In many ways I bet Caemron has the thought that he wished he hadn't won the most seats in the last election now but he has to completely distance himself and hold back nothing as to Coulson, Brookes and the Murdoch empire if he is to have any chance of regaining any credibility.
Once credibility is lost, it rarely comes back, Gordon Brown was a useless PM, he found out what happened when you lose crediblity,he like Cameron is not a bad or uncaring man but when you take on the most important job in the UK, the buck stops with you and when it's a nasty buck like this scandal,where you are is a very lonely place indeed.

[lostalex]

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.

No worries. I respect the fact that we all communicate in different ways. You just happen to be naturally verbose i guess. But definitely on a forum, when you're meant to be discussing ideas in more of a conversational tone, posting long essays like that can definitely disrupt the rhythm of the conversation.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.

You had a lot to say and you said it eloquently. You are always willing to hear both sides of an argument and I have never seen you insult anyone, ever. You have nothing to apologise for.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

You had a lot to say and you said it eloquently. You are always willing to hear both sides of an argument and I have never seen you insult anyone, ever. You have nothing to apologise for.

You are an amazing person Livia, thank you, I always respect your comments and greatly appreciate what you said above.

I did have a lot to say, still have, so I guess it's a good thing I didn't go on.As you know I also have a massive interest in politics anyway.
If I ever become a candidate in an election, heaven help who I am standing against, if we had to share a rostrum,they'd likely need their pillows with them.
Thank you very much again.

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.

No we all like Joey who is Young
to give us his views.



He is a Bright Lad.


Feel The Force

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by arista

No we all like Joey who is Young
to give us his views.



He is a Bright Lad.


Feel The Force

way to pile on dude. stay classy.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14137972

Nick Robinson :

David Cameron has had a major scare. Until today he has looked under the spell of events rather than in control of them. He has, however, now done all of what has been asked of him.

The dangers for him, though, are far from over - although today's announcements may take some of the immediate pressure off him the questions about his appointment of Andy Coulson and his relationships with the Murdochs and their lieutenants will mean that life remains very uncomfortable.

Good .....

[joeysteele]

I better keep this short after comments above.

I think he has swerved away from any danger to his status,I also think the dropping of the bid for full control by Murdoch for BSkyB will also help him.

He seems to have grasped the urgency to not only be doing something but being seen to be doing something which is strong and relevant.
It likely had to be, but because he has included Miliband and obviously the other one,Clegg, in things he has made it near impossible for them to criticise his efforts now.

What comes out will be the main test though, and if Andy Coulson is in very hot water on this issue then the clouds are still there over Cameron.
Personally I doubt there will be any challenge now against him until at least after the next election now.(Unless the Lib Dems jumped ship).

[arista]

[bbfan1991]

No, Cameron should never have appointed Coulson and he realises that mistake now but he obviously belived the man could do a good job?

The news have been bringing up Rebekah Brooks' links to Gordon Brown and Labour before as the newspapers obviously support different political parties so swings and roundabouts...

[Omah]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1SJIvhEFy

Disgraced former News International boss Rebekah Brooks intervened to persuade David Cameron to make ex-News of the World editor Andy Coulson his spin doctor, it was claimed last night.

She is understood to have urged Mr Cameron to scrap plans to give the job to a senior BBC journalist. Mr Cameron was told it should go to someone who was ‘acceptable’ to News International.

It follows the revelation that Mr Coulson stayed at the Prime Minister’s country residence, Chequers, two months after he was forced to quit as Downing Street’s head of communications over the phone-hacking scandal.

Mr Cameron had been on the brink of appointing the BBC’s Guto Harri as his media chief when he was Opposition leader. Mr Harri and his family spent a weekend with the Camerons in 2007 to discuss the job offer.

However, it went to Mr Coulson after Mrs Brooks got involved, according to sources in the Tory party and at News International.

She is said to have told Mr Cameron that the post should go to Mr Coulson to strengthen links between the Tories and News International. He had resigned a few months earlier as News of the World editor over the phone-hacking storm.

What Rebekah wants, Rebekah gets .....

[joeysteele]

If that article is proven to be correct fully, David Cameron will have a lot of tricky questions to answer on that one.

There are now so many twists to this and it is likely to run for years too according to reports. Let's see what next week brings out.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If that article is proven to be correct fully, David Cameron will have a lot of tricky questions to answer on that one.

There are now so many twists to this and it is likely to run for years too according to reports. Let's see what next week brings out.

Yeah, every day there's something else .....

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Omah

Yeah, every day there's something else .....

Also the Police investigations, what was it they said, they had almost 4000 referrals and have so far only got through 170 of them, thiat investigation is going to take ages.

A massive mess this is and on Tuesday it's clear we are not going to learn too much from Brookes and the Murdochs since they will be (sadly rightfully) able to hide behind not answering by saying they cannot answer questions because of the ongoing Police investigations.

[Omah]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cr...hands-in-glee/

By Cristina Odone

The head count is scary, not so much because of the numbers involved, but because of the names: Sir Paul Stephenson, Rebekah Brooks, Les Hinton, Andy Coulson… the casualties of the News International scandal are getting more important every day.

But while everyone around them loses their heads, guess who’s sitting pretty in a corner? The Lib Dems are rubbing their hands in glee at the spectacle of their Coalition “partners” (a term that doesn’t quite capture the venomous nature of a marriage more akin to Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? than Sam-n-Cam) trembling in fear. So the Tory boys got too close to the Evil Empire, did they? Now they’re paying the price! Cameron was courting Rupert and riding with Rebekah, and – whoa! – he got his fingers burnt. In fact, he stands to risk more than his fingers. But the Lib Dems won’t lift a finger to help the OE who has been lording it over them for more than a year.

Look at Vince Cable these days. He’s practically skipping down Downing Street: he suffered bitter humiliation when he boasted about how he would fix Murdoch, and see off the mogul’s bid for BSkyB; but that was then, in the days before the great purge, when Murdoch sneezed and British establishment caught a cold. No longer: events have vindicated our Vince. Look at Nick Clegg. Until recently, poor old Clegg had been the scapegoat of every anti-cut demonstrator, the butt of every anti-Coalition joke. He limped behind his Master Cameron, and hung about sheepishly, waiting for his cue. No longer: Clegg has let it be known that he’d warned Cameron about Coulson. He’s shown himself to be a round-head and not a cavalier when it came to dealings with Fleet Street.

Hold on a second, though. It’s easy to play the clean-hands hero when temptation never came your way. Let’s face it, the Lib Dems never got down and dirty with Murdoch’s people because Murdoch’s people never bothered with them. The third party was so beneath the parapet, the only Lib Demmer a News of the World reader would have known was Paddy Ashdown.

Sad, but true .....

[joeysteele]

If this gets closer to the Govt, then I really can see the Lib Dems taking it as an opportunity to withdraw from the coalition, they and their members especially will be really concerned at being seen as getting embroiled in this scandal.

However and I don't think this can happen, they will need to see Cameron and the Conservatives go down in the polls. I cannot see the Conservatives going below 33% so I don't see any danger yet for Cameron but the storm clouds are there.

Where all this ends is beyond prediction, anything could happen yet.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

If this gets closer to the Govt, then I really can see the Lib Dems taking it as an opportunity to withdraw from the coalition, they and their members especially will be really concerned at being seen as getting embroiled in this scandal.

However and I don't think this can happen, they will need to see Cameron and the Conservatives go down in the polls. I cannot see the Conservatives going below 33% so I don't see any danger yet for Cameron but the storm clouds are there.

Where all this ends is beyond prediction, anything could happen yet.

..... and probably will - watch this space .....