[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't think anyone on here is in that position so presumably you are yelling at the people not connected to the forum.

No one believes anyone is entitled to benefits if they are not warranted and have no reason to be on them.
We do have 2.5 million unemployed in the UK and at best 500,000 approx vacancies.
Now I am not a brilliant mathematician by any means but you cannot fully employ 2.5 million people in half a million vacancies.

Furthermore, a great number of people now on benefits have worked for many decades and ill health has forced then to stop working.
It is not as simple as black and white, there are many grey areas as to benefits.

A decent society should have the duty to provide for it's weakest and poorest.The most vulnerable getting the greater help obviously.
This Govt is attacking and taking from the most vulnerable and many of the people left with a pittance to live on are infact working anyway but still in the bracket where they are entitled to benefits.

Having some pompous arrogant politician like IDS telling the poorest that he could live on £53 a week when he knows the luxury he can go back to after it is not only patronising it is downright insulting.

The vast majority of people try to and would take a job if it was offered to them, the fact is as I said at the start, full time jobs are rather rare, part time jobs leave people still on some benefits and I repeat, you cannot give 2.5 million people jobs with only half a million vacancies.

Scroungers is too general a term and the vast majority of people who now find themselves on benefits are far from being scroungers anyway.
It is time this Govt stopped demonising them and started on the people who are rich and powerful enough to find ways of not paying what would be due income tax.

I come from a privileged background, I know how lucky I am but I have gone out to learn what it is like for people on benefits and I have yet to really meet what could be termed a genuine scrounger.

OK I agree my post was a little knee jerk , and everyone has their own story and their own problems. Perhaps there is no real dole scrounger perhaps it is just a stereotype , but our welfare system is too complicated and needs reforming. The money must go to the people who need it the most not just given week in week out for years to someone who is then pursuaded not to pursue paid employment as they would lose their benefits.

They are not their benefits this money comes from you and I the ones who work and pay taxes.

Not sure what the answer is but the status quo is cannot be maintained indefinitely.....!!!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

OK I agree my post was a little knee jerk , and everyone has their own story and their own problems. Perhaps there is no real dole scrounger perhaps it is just a stereotype , but our welfare system is too complicated and needs reforming. The money must go to the people who need it the most not just given week in week out for years to someone who is then pursuaded not to pursue paid employment as they would lose their benefits.

They are not their benefits this money comes from you and I the ones who work and pay taxes.

Not sure what the answer is but the status quo is cannot be maintained indefinitely.....!!!!

Well, that's right, I agree with the idea to reform and simplify benefits and make sure people are checked regularly as to the benefits they are getting and that they are still entitled to them.
I will admit there will be people who claim benefits wrongly but they are a minority in my view anyway.

I totally agree with the benefit cap too and also agree with limited rises in benefits for a period too
I don't agree though with piling undue stress and penalties on people who can ill afford to have that done to them through no fault of their own.

Also people,obviously not all, on benefits have also likely paid into the system for decades too when they were able to work.

Thanks for that reply Nedusa,good of you to reply that way.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

OK I agree my post was a little knee jerk , and everyone has their own story and their own problems. Perhaps there is no real dole scrounger perhaps it is just a stereotype , but our welfare system is too complicated and needs reforming. The money must go to the people who need it the most not just given week in week out for years to someone who is then pursuaded not to pursue paid employment as they would lose their benefits.

They are not their benefits this money comes from you and I the ones who work and pay taxes.

Not sure what the answer is but the status quo is cannot be maintained indefinitely.....!!!!

If you are able to work, you have to prove each fortnight that you are actively looking. A few years ago it seemed people could get away with writing anything in their jobseekers diary. But these days they check literally everything. If you say you applied for a job, they will check. Writing that you handed CVs out is no longer an acceptable form of jobsearch. If you fail to do enough to find work, you are sanctioned. No money at all.

Basically, pretty much the only way to sit on your arse and do nothing, is to claim disability benefits falsely. And even then you will be found out by ATOS soon enough, since they also kick as many genuine claimants off as possible so clearly they will spot a real fraud.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If you are able to work, you have to prove each fortnight that you are actively looking. A few years ago it seemed people could get away with writing anything in their jobseekers diary. But these days they check literally everything. If you say you applied for a job, they will check. Writing that you handed CVs out is no longer an acceptable form of jobsearch. If you fail to do enough to find work, you are sanctioned. No money at all.

Basically, pretty much the only way to sit on your arse and do nothing, is to claim disability benefits falsely. And even then you will be found out by ATOS soon enough, since they also kick as many genuine claimants off as possible so clearly they will spot a real fraud.

I'm a little shocked I have to say if what you're saying is true. I thought most people who had worked and paid huge amounts of tax had essentially paid into the system. When they become unemployed they need time and money to look for another job. They also need enough money to keep their bills at bay and they need space to look for work etc.

What they don't need is stupid petty rules that start from the premise that they are dole cheats. They don't need to be forced to continually prove they are looking for work as that is distracting and would reduce their chances of finding new employment.

Anyhow they are only receiving the money they paid in , in any case !!!

[Omah]

341,115 supporters

[Kizzy]

Let's hope there is no situation where you find yourself knocked off that very tall horse you are currently astride...
Being on sickness benefit is no joke I can tell you that, there but for the grace of that big shmuck in the sky eh?..

[Vicky.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9968...-gets-156.html

LOL at this story. Trying to make out the (working)man who challenged IDS has more money than he claimed.

However

Mr Bennett claimed on the Today programme on Monday that he made £53 a week on his stall, sometimes working as many as 70 hours a week. It later emerged however, that he is also in receipt of £200 a month Working Tax Credit and £232 a month housing benefit. Out of that he pays £400 a month rent, plus £190 a month utility bills, including £120 a month gas and electricity, £36 a month water and telephone, insurance and council tax.

53 earnings x 4 = £212 + £200 WTC + £232 HB = £644 per month income
£400 rent + £190 bills = £590 per month outgoings

£54 difference, not £53...£1 off...

Seems the torygraph is panicking a little bit too much trying to rubbish what this man said...trying to deflect attention from IDS. Failed quite badly IMO.

[Omah]

348,993 supporters

[Kizzy]

That petition could get a million supporters, he won't do it though

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That petition could get a million supporters, he won't do it though

Yo are most likely right, Kizzy, I put a link up earlier in the thread where another MP did similar quite a few years back now and he couldn't hack it, so would love for IDS to live on said allowance for not a week, but a few months at the least. But he has at least been called up on it, and the fact that so many have signed the petition shows manys thoughts on it and allows them them to get those thoughts across. He has done himself no favours with shouting his gob off like that. I have told a few about the petition incase they want to sign it, it does need loads more signatures still to reach the goal though.

[arista]

He could in a Shed
with no heating , lots of jumpers.
A battery radio. torch.
and a bucket with lid as a bog

[Omah]

371,702 supporters

[Omah]

405,537 supporters

[Omah]

441,793 supporters