[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Glenn

I smoke. I know it's probably going to give me lung cancer. I still smoke. I know the risks involved.

you smoke because you are addicted, not because you made a choice to get lung cancer.

[Glenn.]

So an addiction then?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Glenn

So an addiction then?

you are starting to figure it out, bravo...

it doesn't mean people deserve to die because they have addiction though. and it's not a choice.

[Glenn.]

I smoke cigarettes. I know the high risk of cancer that comes with smoking. I still make the conscious choice to smoke everyday because I'm addicted to it which backs up what Claudia said and what I agreed with. Everyone is aware or should have a basic understanding of addictions.

It's like someone taking heroin. It's a highly addictive substance but people still make the choice to take it.

[Kizzy]

Of course not... does every 16yr old have a drag of a ciggie thinking, ' well I'm setting myself up for 30-40yrs of addiction'?
No they don't.
As alex pointed out Claudias point only covers certain addictions and not the concept of addiction.

[Glenn.]

But they start smoking knowing what damage it causes anyway, in most cases.

[Kizzy]

They don't start knowing they'll get addicted though, there are different types of addiction too Physical, chemical and emotional.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They don't start knowing they'll get addicted though, there are different types of addiction too Physical, chemical and emotional.

Of course they do. That's ridiculous. They know if they're going to have a cheeky puff everyday, it's going to become an addiction because it is an addiction.

It's like a heroin addict. They make a conscious decision to take that very first hit that gets them hooked but they still do it anyway.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Of course they do. That's ridiculous. They know if they're going to have a cheeky puff everyday, it's going to become an addiction because it is an addiction.

It's like a heroin addict. They make a conscious decision to take that very first hit that gets them hooked but they still do it anyway.

It's not ridiculous, My point is nobody who starts smoking does it with the intention of getting addicted.
They may be aware it happens that's not to say they expect it to happen.

[Glenn.]

But they know the risks of getting addicted which was why I agreed with Claudia.

[Kizzy]

Well that's fine, don't know many who don't enjoy the odd drink by worrying they'll need a liver transplant mind.
Not everyone gets addicted to that degree do they?

[Glenn.]

Our addictions are the results of our own choices. If you can't see that then I'm not entertaining you further.

[Kizzy]

You're not entertaining me... We're discussing a topic on a thread is all.
Lot's of things are addictive, some find them more so than others and it's that I was making reference to. If you don't agree that's fine.

[Glenn.]

In what post did I say I thought that wasn't the case? The point I'm trying to make is that people make the choice to take drugs, smoke etc.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Glenn

In what post did I say I thought that wasn't the case? The point I'm trying to make is that people make the choice to take drugs, smoke etc.

Ah, when you put 'same tbh' to claudias 'addictive stuff' I thought you were being non specific.
I think when you take heroin and such the chances are you're already addicted to other substances.
Still not sure all smokers intend to become addicted, or they don't understand how difficult breaking an addiction is... Maybe I only have sympathy as I know how hard it is?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Angelika

I have worked with addicts and alcoholics in a rehab facility and just want to share a couple of points with you for your own safe-guarding.

Your friend needs to see someone about coming off whatever she was taking safely.

Many addicts become very devious about their addiction so I am not at all surprised to hear this problem was not shared with friends and family. Many addicts are in denial about the extent of their problem and often become dismissive about the severity of the problem, that is, if they accept they have a problem in the first place.

Addiction and the drive to obtain a "fix" alters behaviour. You may find a pattern of lying, stealing and deception and plenty of justification for wrong doing when they think they are being discovered.

Keep an eye on small valuables and money and don't enable the addictive behaviour. To be a good friend to an addict means having to say no a lot of the time.

The desire to kick a habit has to come from the addict. It only comes once the addict accepts he/she has a problem and has the desire to change. Sometimes this never happens successfully and sometimes it takes a number if admissions before the addict finally co-operates successfully and comes clean. Friends can be supportive during the period of rehabilitation but the real work has to be done by the addict. Good luck, it's difficult being a friend or family member of addicts. Addicts disappoint friends a lot and many are abandoned by friends in the end.

Be supportive but don't be a mug.

great post!

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course not... does every 16yr old have a drag of a ciggie thinking, ' well I'm setting myself up for 30-40yrs of addiction'?
No they don't.
As alex pointed out Claudias point only covers certain addictions and not the concept of addiction.

Lol come on Kizzy smoking isn't the best choice to back up your point. Before 2000 certainly, but In this day and age if as a 16 year old you don't know that cigarettes are addictive then you want sectioning for your own safety so you don't accidentally walk over train tracks and get mowed down by a train.

Gambling I think is a better one. I'm sure nobody goes into gambling thinking 'oh what am I going to do if I turn out to be one of those few people that get addicted?' They just wanna put a fiver on a horse with the same name as their wife then before they know it they are 200 grand down and in the middle of a painful divorce. Alcohol dependancy could follow the same route too.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I appreciate you work with addicts but to label them all underhand thieves is a bit unfair, nowhere in daniels post is it inferred she has been untrustworthy.
All she is guilty of at the moment is not admitting to her friends she couldn't cope and not burdening with her problems, it's fantastic they want to support her.

"Addiction and the drive to obtain a "fix" alters behaviour. You may find a pattern of lying, stealing and deception and plenty of justification for wrong doing when they think they are being discovered. "

I think the words; "you may" are self-explanatory - 'you might or might not', ' there is a possibility but it's not definite', 'it could be, but it might not be'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Lol come on Kizzy smoking isn't the best choice to back up your point. Before 2000 certainly, but In this day and age if as a 16 year old you don't know that cigarettes are addictive then you want sectioning for your own safety so you don't accidentally walk over train tracks and get mowed down by a train.

Gambling I think is a better one. I'm sure nobody goes into gambling thinking 'oh what am I going to do if I turn out to be one of those few people that get addicted?' They just wanna put a fiver on a horse with the same name as their wife then before they know it they are 200 grand down and in the middle of a painful divorce. Alcohol dependancy could follow the same route too.

I didn't offer that example initially glenn did, I meant everyone knows the associated health risk now of smoking yes but there is as a rule no intent to become addicted is there, it is a gradual process with most things.

I believe addiction affects people to varying degrees.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"Addiction and the drive to obtain a "fix" alters behaviour. You may find a pattern of lying, stealing and deception and plenty of justification for wrong doing when they think they are being discovered. "

I think the words; "you may" are self-explanatory - 'you might or might not', ' there is a possibility but it's not definite', 'it could be, but it might not be'.

And this? 'Keep an eye on small valuables'... You may want to explain why this phrase was used as it appears to directly infer that the person the OP is concerned about is untrustworthy.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And this? 'Keep an eye on small valuables'... You may want to explain why this phrase was used as it appears to directly infer that the person the OP is concerned about is untrustworthy.

I think you're being pedantic Kizzy - and a tad silly. I think that it's universally accepted the character of the most honest of people changes once they are truly addicted to drugs, and the deeper that addiction is, then the more likely they are to steal in order to fund their habit. In my opinion, the advice was given in good faith, well meaning, and specifically within the context of someone trying to help the addict overcome their addiction by administering 'tough love'; something which entails deliberately depriving the addict of their 'fix'. Surely then, this would be the very time when the addict is more likely to resort to desperate measures like stealing to get that fix - hence the advice to "keep an eye on small valuables". This wasn't an attack on the addict, it was informed advice on the nature of addiction.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Lol come on Kizzy smoking isn't the best choice to back up your point. Before 2000 certainly, but In this day and age if as a 16 year old you don't know that cigarettes are addictive then you want sectioning for your own safety so you don't accidentally walk over train tracks and get mowed down by a train.

Gambling I think is a better one. I'm sure nobody goes into gambling thinking 'oh what am I going to do if I turn out to be one of those few people that get addicted?' They just wanna put a fiver on a horse with the same name as their wife then before they know it they are 200 grand down and in the middle of a painful divorce. Alcohol dependancy could follow the same route too.

Smoking is a fine example. She's not saying people don't know that it can be addictive. But they don't start smoking in the full knowledge that they WILL.

I tried smoking as a teenager, as most do, and did it casually. I never became addicted at all and could stop whenever I wanted, which I did when I no longer felt the need to "join in". Whereas another friend who tried it when I did is now a 20 a day guy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think you're being pedantic Kizzy - and a tad silly. I think that it's universally accepted the character of the most honest of people changes once they are truly addicted to drugs, and the deeper that addiction is, then the more likely they are to steal in order to fund their habit. In my opinion, the advice was given in good faith, well meaning, and specifically within the context of someone trying to help the addict overcome their addiction by administering 'tough love'; something which entails deliberately depriving the addict of their 'fix'. Surely then, this would be the very time when the addict is more likely to resort to desperate measures like stealing to get that fix - hence the advice to "keep an eye on small valuables". This wasn't an attack on the addict, it was informed advice on the nature of addiction.

Listen Mr Lancaster, my reply to that post was my opinion as structured by the information provided by the OP, if you or other members don't agree then that's your prerogative.
Maybe argue your own points and leave others to argue theirs.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Listen Mr Lancaster, my reply to that post was my opinion as structured by the information provided by the OP, if you or other members don't agree then that's your prerogative.
Maybe argue your own points and leave others to argue theirs.

If you look , you'll see that you actually quoted me and asked me directly the question I answered, so why you're being all snotty I don't know.

[Marsh.]

Yeah Kizzy, don't be snotty. Get a tissue.