[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I agree, I'm half French and was raised on a typical French diet which includes lots of fatty food. I weigh 105lbs and my weight doesn't fluctuate. I don't find it expensive to eat natural food but I have to say, I probably eat a lot more green vegetables than what you would see in most English diets. I make my own sauces which is more time consuming than buying something ready made and I don't use tinned food. We also don't eat meat more than a couple of times a week but I tend to cook pork belly or beef mince. We do eat a lot of cheese dishes and I do make a couple of pies a week with full butter pastry.

I mean compared to junk here, not sure if its different in France. When you compare say..the price of a few different kinds of veg, some potatoes and some fresh meat.. to a giant bag of chicken nuggets and a giant bag of fries for £1.50 each in iceland which would probably do a family of 4 for a couple of meals...well eating healthy seems a fortune in comparison. Especially to those on low incomes.

[smudgie]

Hmmm, save 10 million or whatever.
I would like to know the cost of implementing this, and also, if the claimant has to try and help themselves, if they will also be given all the help they need, therapy etc. could cost more than they could save, and then once these people lose the weight, no saying they will get jobs.

Just an easy target if you ask me.

[Tom4784]

It's just more demonising of the people who need help the most. Yeah sure, SOME people abuse the system but you'd have to swallow a lot of tabloid **** to believe that it's a wide spread problem.

A bigger problem is the corporations and the rich not putting in what they owe. If the major corporations that have business in the UK actually paid their way then you'd never see crap like the bedroom tax or the demonising of people who depend on benefits because taxing the rich and the corporations PROPERLY will yield a lot more money than making the poor suffer ever will.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's just more demonising of the people who need help the most. Yeah sure, SOME people abuse the system but you'd have to swallow a lot of tabloid **** to believe that it's a wide spread problem.

A bigger problem is the corporations and the rich not putting in what they owe. If the major corporations that have business in the UK actually paid their way then you'd never see crap like the bedroom tax or the demonising of people who depend on benefits because taxing the rich and the corporations PROPERLY will yield a lot more money than making the poor suffer ever will.

I think they're separate issues. Obesity is a problem at epidemic levels, a quarter of all adults in this country are obese. That is not acceptable. The unemployment-obesity aspect is the sensationalist part that this thread is focusing on, but I think it is going to take something as harsh as "we will stop giving you money if you don't stop overfeeding yourselves" to try and solve the problem of obesity. Parents who feed their children utter crap should have the kids taken off them, not only are they physically harming them through their diet but they're giving these kids lifelong battles with their weight - if I could go back and dissuade my parents from taking me to McDonald's all the time as a kid I'd do it 100%, how was I to know any better, I was a little kid! Fat is a symptom, not a way of life.

[jennyjuniper]

I am in full agreement with stopping benefits for people with alcohol and drug problems. While people recieve money for drinking and taking drugs, where is the incentive to stop??As for obese people, they too should at least show that they are trying to live a healthier lifestyle instead of just filling their faces with unsuitable food and doing no exercise whatsoever and relying on the rest of society to support their lifestyle.
Before anyone calls me heartless and insensitive, I was/am an alcoholic, who hasn't had a drink for 20 odd years. I'm not particularly strong willed and it's been hard to resist sometimes, but it's doable. If I can do it anyone can.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I am in full agreement with stopping benefits for people with alcohol and drug problems. While people recieve money for drinking and taking drugs, where is the incentive to stop??As for obese people, they too should at least show that they are trying to live a healthier lifestyle instead of just filling their faces with unsuitable food and doing no exercise whatsoever and relying on the rest of society to support their lifestyle.
Before anyone calls me heartless and insensitive, I was/am an alcoholic, who hasn't had a drink for 20 odd years. I'm not particularly strong willed and it's been hard to resist sometimes, but it's doable. If I can do it anyone can.

Well said.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I am in full agreement with stopping benefits for people with alcohol and drug problems. While people recieve money for drinking and taking drugs, where is the incentive to stop??As for obese people, they too should at least show that they are trying to live a healthier lifestyle instead of just filling their faces with unsuitable food and doing no exercise whatsoever and relying on the rest of society to support their lifestyle.
Before anyone calls me heartless and insensitive, I was/am an alcoholic, who hasn't had a drink for 20 odd years. I'm not particularly strong willed and it's been hard to resist sometimes, but it's doable. If I can do it anyone can.

I don't see how that would work in reality...all it would do is force those people to turn to crime to survive Then we would be even worse off. See if people welcome the 0.0001p they save per month in taxes that were going to the druggie down the road when their house is burgled...

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't see how that would work in reality...all it would do is force those people to turn to crime to survive Then we would be even worse off. See if people welcome the 0.0001p they save per month in taxes that were going to the druggie down the road when their house is burgled...

I see your point, but what if they used the benefits money to pay for re-habilitation clinics? That's how I got off the stuff. I know it wouldn't work for everyone, but at least some could have a decent life again .

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I see your point, but what if they used the benefits money to pay for re-habilitation clinics? That's how I got off the stuff. I know it wouldn't work for everyone, but at least some could have a decent life again .

Can you really see that happening? The benefits will be stopped and the people forgotten about

The problem with saying people have to get help for stuff like this (which tbf, they should be getting anyway) is that the help isn't there...and the government dont actually care about helping people, just saving cash. It would cost so much to put all drug addicts etc into rehab. It just would never happen.

If there was a proper system in place it would be fine. As to get the amount of help required, more staff would have to be taken on, more buildings built etc, so a lot of people would get work out of it all too, along with people getting help out of the whole thing. But this is not what IDS and co would do. Stopping more peoples income is the only thing on their minds.

[Vicky.]

In principle I dont have a problem with it, however..I dont see how it will help anything. As I said these people wont find a job (one they are unlikely to anyway if they are ill from their weight/problems, and 2 the jobs arent there even for the healthy) and will have no option but to turn to crime...which helps noone.

Also the nhs argument doesnt hold up because unhealthy people cost less in the long run...if everyone tomorrow started eating healthy and gave up their vices, and we started living to 100...the nhs would collapse as we would have to pay for a lot more 24/7 care for age related disease such as alzheimers which is much more expensive than the odd bypass due to eating crap. Same argument as smokers really...

[Northern Monkey]

So they do this and we get loads of obese people living on the streets,Well they'd certainly lose weight then.Ridiculous.
How would they even put this into practice?Clog up the NHS more by having weekly weigh-ins at the docs who would then have report his findings to the benefits office?
Why not help people to lose weight?Slimfast vouchers or Slimming World and gym membership?not demonising people for what they eat.Too much control and interfering in peoples lives.
However obesity alone due to lazyness and greed should not be a reason to be able to claim disability living allowance in the first place imo.Fair enough if it is a symptom of a real illness.
As for Job Seekers allowance then as long as they are job seeking then their weight is nothing to do with anything.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

How would they even put this into practice?Clog up the NHS more by having weekly weigh-ins at the docs who would then have report his findings to the benefits office?

They'll probably just use all the old closed down Whaleweigh stations.

[joeysteele]

For me, I just have not really come across anything as to ideas like this that come from David Cameron and this govt; that genuinely are looked at from the understanding,fair and compassion angle.

Nothing this man says as to things like this, inspire me with any confidence to trust him with peoples lives like this.
Since he has chosen to say it now, it is pretty clear to me that he wants this to be able to be done over the next parliament,if the Conservatives won in May.
For me, this is just another reason I hope they are not elected in May.

This needs to be looked at by those who are involved in the support of these people and know all the other conditions and needs that may have.
Before ascertaining all that, to shout this idea as he has, shows a plan to continue more demonising of some benefit claimants and to further penalise them more in my view.
I wouldn't trust David Cameron as to just about anything now.

I hope this 'review' he has asked for will list this as a non starter because I can see a lot of people being made to suffer more hardship and distress who are among the most vulnerable again probably.
To save tens of millions while others get away with not paying likely tens of billions.

[Vicky.]

Anyway, I assume this is to drum up more antibenefit sentiments to draw attention away from stories such as this, publicised today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31459067

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Anyway, I assume this is to drum up more antibenefit sentiments to draw attention away from stories such as this, publicised today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31459067

No I think there is room for all news Storys


This getting Obese people "that refuse work"
is also supported by Labour
but they do not want it on a Front page etc

[Livia]

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

Agree completely. However just stopping their income...is not help. Its the opposite of help and is likely to make their problems (and everyone elses in reality) a hell of a lot worse. The sad reality is though aswell, that some people are beyond help..or wont accept it. The problem we have there is to either keep supporting them (as lets be honest, they wouldn't find work anyway, not where there is something like 1 job for every 4 people on jsa to begin with) or to cut off everything from them, have them living on the streets begging/mugging people etc to survive.

I have said before and its not a popular view, until there is enough employment for those completely able and willing to work, I don't see what the need is in bothering with those few who don't want to/can't because of their own vices. Edit. I dont mean bothering as in helping them..I mean bothering as in trying to force them to work by threatening to take away their only form of income and such

I would rather those people had an income than run the risk of them attacking me or taking my stuff because we treat them like nothing. Even if in a lot of peoples eyes, they are nothing.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

Agreed SOME of these people do NOT want to work,time to move their lazy asses.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Agreed SOME of these people do NOT want to work,time to move their lazy asses.

But they still wont work, as the work isnt there for those do who want it, nevermind those who dont and are too fat/addicted to do so anyway

[DemolitionRed]

I think its really sad to see such huge obesity problems in this country. People are using mobility scooters because their own gluttony has disabled them. Nobody wants to be like that, so when we shout, "its self inflicted" we should perhaps all try to walk a mile in their shoes.

We see self induced illnesses through smoking, alcohol and drugs and now we are seeing it from the over consumption of food. If you asked an emphysema patient, if he was happy whilst he puffed away on a cigarette in between gulps from his oxygen mask, do you think his answer would be "yes"? its the same with obesity; whilst some may claim they like being big and round, they do so from shame and embarrassment. Nobody wants to be obese.

[waterhog]

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

[arista]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he ids Obese but works every day hard

[arista]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he is Obese but works every day hard

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he is Obese but works every day hard

Where does it say this?

I see no clarification between ages/previous employment/etc. Just 'rarrr obese'.