[Tom4784]

Jeremy Corbyn is the only good choice for Labour. I think he'd potentially be one of the best PMs in years if he was elected at the next elections.

[empire]

labour need to ditch the communist way of thinking in their economy, policy.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by empire

labour need to ditch the communist way of thinking in their economy, policy.

Which aspects do u think are communist?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Burnham for me.I actually agree with some of Corbyns ideas but fear he would scrap Trident,Leave Nato,Leave the country pretty much defenceless and not put any controls on immigration.The safety of a country's citizens should come first for me.

THIS x 1000%.

[arista]

No Kirk
Burnham will not win this


JC will outright win with a massive amount


Life In The City

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No Kirk
Burnham will not win this


JC will outright win with a massive amount


Life In The City

That is far from assured, I doubt it will be decided on the first run of results and first preference votes.

Once that is the case then it will be down to the 2nd preference votes which really could alter the result considerably,no matter how far ahead anyone may be on the first round of votes.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Which aspects do u think are communist?

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is far from assured, I doubt it will be decided on the first run of results and first preference votes.

Once that is the case then it will be down to the 2nd preference votes which really could alter the result considerably,no matter how far ahead anyone may be on the first round of votes.

It will be
massive votes for JC
Clear Win

Utter Bliss

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Don't worry,there are none.
Either in the economic ideas or as to any policy of the labour party.

I didn't think there was any, just wanted to see if there was any weight to the claim which there apparently is not.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

Nationalisation isn't a purely communist idea. I mean, they believe in most industries to be nationalised, whereas Corbyn prefers a mixed style where some are and some aren't.

By your logic, the NHS is a communist behaviour that makes every mainstream party communist?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government

I cannot agree.
We had nationalised services before, none of it classed as being done by a communist govt. seriously.

The Labour govt of 1945 to 1951 was in no way communist nor neither of the minority administrations before then either.

I am as far from being of any communist thinking as anyone but even I would now support the nationalisation of the utility services at least.

It is time we woke up to now and the UKs real place in the world,not sit back like little Englanders and think we can rule all as we once believed we did.

It is time services were run by the UK for the good of all its consumers not sold off to make those from other Nations rich and line their own pockets and bank balances.
It is time we accepted we do not know best, that we have at best only fair overall politicians on the whole now.
That we can learn from the rest of the World and not isolate ourselves even more and become even more hated because of what we now stand for.
Reaching out internationally and at home to our own citizens too rather than expecting from and dictatating to all and sundry.
Building up is what we should be striving to do,not bringing down, all in the name of vast profit and wealth, where real caring and working together are thrown out altogether.

We have had in the main capitalist orientated govt. for something like 75 years since the year 1900 and we are still in a mess even now,despite many good runs in govt for the main capitalist party too in all that time.

We have probably in truth, never had a really socialist govt since the 1945 to 1951 period,most Labour govts. since then have just been milder Conservative ones.

With the fullest respect for your view,in my view there is nothing communist about any of that.

[bots]

I beg to differ, the concept of nationalisation is a communist one, implemented by communist parties around the world. The fact that it is taken up by more mainstream parties, doesn't change that basic principle.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I beg to differ, the concept of nationalisation is a communist one, implemented by communist parties around the world. The fact that it is taken up by more mainstream parties, doesn't change that basic principle.

Well, then I guess most UK citizens are communists if thats how you define the ideology. You can't drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism, that's one word which if it means having NHS, would theoretically make it a good thing.

I am not a proponent of communism, it does not work imo. If I thought Corbyn was communist then I wouldn't be backing him.

Also just because nationalisation has been used within communist governments (although there haven't been many), doesn't make it that in principle. It's ridiculous. That's like saying because the Nazis used book-burnings, that it makes burning books a nazi concept.. not at all.

[Kizzy]

What if it is, what is it about nationalisation that is so unattractive?
If there is one aspect of communism that is adopted by a democratic govt that works and benefits the state and society as a whole what's the problem?
Are you only listening to the voices of those who demand a slice of the lucrative pie and who object to them not being allowed to monopolise certain sectors or energies, what of the rest of us?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Well, then I guess most UK citizens are communists if thats how you define the ideology. You can't drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism, that's one word which if it means having NHS, would theoretically make it a good thing.

I am not a proponent of communism, it does not work imo. If I thought Corbyn was communist then I wouldn't be backing him.

Also just because nationalisation has been used within communist governments (although there haven't been many), doesn't make it that in principle. It's ridiculous. That's like saying because the Nazis used book-burnings, that it makes burning books a nazi concept.. not at all.

I'm sorry Josh BB, but your argument is 'Strawman'. BitOnTheSlide did NOT "drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism" - he clearly stated that;

"nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government"

which it is.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm sorry Josh BB, but your argument is 'Strawman'. BitOnTheSlide did NOT "drag down the concept of nationalisation by saying it's communism" - he clearly stated that;

"nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government"

which it is.

Okay well, nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government. Yes, that's true. If we're not referring to Corbyn's policies then idk why the communist thing was brought up though if not to say he's a communist.

Unless it's just a little political fun fact

[Kizzy]

What would you call a leader who has society over an oil barrel to the energy companies.. who threatens to remove access to free healthcare.. who slaps unfair taxes on the poorest, a fascist?
By the same token as the communist ideology accusation I could suggest Cameron is a fascist due to his....

[erinp5]

I can and did ...Corbyn and Watson .

[billy123]

Corbyn

[billy123]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Okay well, nationalising things is typical behaviour of a communist government. Yes, that's true. If we're not referring to Corbyn's policies then idk why the communist thing was brought up though if not to say he's a communist.

Unless it's just a little political fun fact

this is comedy gold. But also a little frightening that some young people think like this.
Josh what is it that frightens you about people working together to build a better society? and how on earth did you manage to equate that to Communism?

[Kizzy]

The right wing assassins are massing...

'The night sky over London was thick with choking black smoke, but in the hellish glow of the flames rising from a myriad burning buildings, the rioters, looters and demonstrators fighting on the city streets could just make out the United Nations helicopter taking Jeremy Corbyn away from 10 Downing Street to his retirement cottage in Ireland.
Not for him the Prime Minister’s Jaguar in which his hated Mrs Thatcher had departed on the night she, too, was deposed. All Government cars had long since been sold in a desperate bid to pay off the Ł3 trillion National Debt, after the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the European Central Bank had refused to hand a bankrupt, basket-case Britain any more emergency loans.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-wish-for.html

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What if it is, what is it about nationalisation that is so unattractive?
If there is one aspect of communism that is adopted by a democratic govt that works and benefits the state and society as a whole what's the problem?
Are you only listening to the voices of those who demand a slice of the lucrative pie and who object to them not being allowed to monopolise certain sectors or energies, what of the rest of us?

I actually have no issue with things being nationalised, but it should be for the right reasons. I think I'm one of the only posters in this thread who has admitted to living through times when industries were nationalised, and I can't help but feel looking at contributions to the thread that it is seen as some magical solution to current ills. I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but nationalising something in itself does not cure it of its inherent issues, It never has, and it never will.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I actually have no issue with things being nationalised, but it should be for the right reasons. I think I'm one of the only posters in this thread who has admitted to living through times when industries were nationalised, and I can't help but feel looking at contributions to the thread that it is seen as some magical solution to current ills. I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but nationalising something in itself does not cure it of its inherent issues, It never has, and it never will.

Of course it wasn't back in the day but when you factor in the advances in energy production and technology then the margin for profit grows exponentially, why else would the Dutch govt own a portion of our railways?..

[joeysteele]

The socialist content of nationalisation is very different from the communist models.

The other thing is,nationalisation,being imposed by a power,would be an act of communism,That would be a fairer assumption in my view.
I would then add strongly,nationalisation voted for in democratic elections and therefore then done by a democratically elected govt,under the socialist model of nationalisation, is a world away from communism either in thought or fact.
So communism coming into this thread as to Corbyns 'possible' policies,I fear are red herrings.
I do expect it to come from the sick and warped media with their view of things however.

Nationalisation had its faults as I am learning from my family much older than myself as to the issues around the utility services then.
However, what I am also hearing is those issues pale into near insignificance as to what has transpired since privatisation which even they as usually firm Conservatives say, was the biggest con against consumers ever done.

It could work, with the right agenda and conditions in place.
In my view, looking at my water, electricity, gas bills,anything for me would be better than the rip off and sheer greed as to these services in operation now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The socialist content of nationalisation is very different from the communist models.

The other thing is,nationalisation,being imposed by a power,would be an act of communism,That would be a fairer assumption in my view.
I would then add strongly,nationalisation voted for in democratic elections and therefore then done by a democratically elected govt,under the socialist model of nationalisation, is a world away from communism either in thought or fact.
So communism coming into this thread as to Corbyns 'possible' policies,I fear are red herrings.
I do expect it to come from the sick and warped media with their view of things however.

Nationalisation had its faults as I am learning from my family much older than myself as to the issues around the utility services then.
However, what I am also hearing is those issues pale into near insignificance as to what has transpired since privatisation which even they as usually firm Conservatives say, was the biggest con against consumers ever done.

It could work, with the right agenda and conditions in place.
In my view, looking at my water, electricity, gas bills,anything for me would be better than the rip off and sheer greed as to these services in operation now.

Excellent points Joey thankyou, I totally agree that the issues with nationalisation pale into insignificance when compared with the problems that deregulation and or privatisation of certain sectors has brought.