[Kizzy]

Exactly at any moment any one of us are a fateful moment away from where these people are. The more I read back on certain regimes and attitudes to the mentally and physically incapacitated the more reminiscent it appears over recent times.

[bots]

Irrespective of peoples feelings about IDS and I am among those who can't stand him. You cannot personally attack someone and try and stop him going about his business. He performed the same function in the last government, and people voted for that government to continue their work, which they are doing. Try and win the next election

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Irrespective of peoples feelings about IDS and I am among those who can't stand him. You cannot personally attack someone and try and stop him going about his business. He performed the same function in the last government, and people voted for that government to continue their work, which they are doing. Try and win the next election

37% of the electorate voted Conservative, who try win the next election, disabled people?
If they being personally affected feel justified due to the accusations of human rights violations to voice that to IDS then fair play. He's not the first politician to be harassed for his part in legislative changes and he won't be the last.
Some are slated more regularly for less

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

37% of the electorate voted Conservative, who try win the next election, disabled people?
If they being personally affected feel justified due to the accusations of human rights violations to voice that to IDS then fair play. He's not the first politician to be harassed for his part in legislative changes and he won't be the last.
Some are slated more regularly for less

Keep quoting percentages all you like. That is the method of democracy that we have in this country. Sour grapes is all i see in this thread, no hint of respecting democracy that is LAW within our country.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Keep quoting percentages all you like. That is the method of democracy that we have in this country. Sour grapes is all i see in this thread, no hint of respecting democracy that is LAW within our country.

Yes it is, nobody is suggesting that democratic proceedure be changed, the only issue is that of restrictions due to policy changes, legislative amendments and funding restrictions... 'sour grapes' mean nothing to me, what are these grapes in reference to?
Opinions have been voiced, no respect is given to policies which effectively kill people nor should they, which is why IDS has questions to answer in relation to human rights violations.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Keep quoting percentages all you like. That is the method of democracy that we have in this country. Sour grapes is all i see in this thread, no hint of respecting democracy that is LAW within our country.

I am afraid that the message from certain posts on here is perfectly clear; that that NO yob behaviour or name calling or violence is wrong if it is carried out by Left Wingers and other subversives, against people they deem to be Right Wing.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am afraid that the message from certain posts on here is perfectly clear; that that NO yob behaviour or name calling or violence is wrong if it is carried out by Left Wingers and other subversives, against people they deem to be Right Wing.

I haven't seen anyone advocating violence, there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning.
Their grievance is with this policy and the minister currently under investigation only.

[smudgie]

Well, as a sick, disabled vulnerable person I would be interested in his views, he could come and have a quiet cuppa with me and explain his policies in more depth.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Well, as a sick, disabled vulnerable person I would be interested in his views, he could come and have a quiet cuppa with me and explain his policies in more depth.

Good luck with that,he won't talk to anyone who can challenge him and in all interviews it is like an old pals act with the interviewer.
I would not be surprised he sets the tone of what can be asked and when.

He is the work and pensions secretary, on a Question time programme he was not even asked a single question as to benefits, the sick and disabled.

Actually however, what I would like to see him do is listen to those who have to go along to the obscene disabled work assessments and see exactly how they enact the policies the has put in place, the degrading treatment those sick and disabled in the main get there and not only them but carers or family/friends who go along with them.
I'd like to see him made to fill in every stupid and pathetically planned ESA form with its ridiculous questions for those who have to claim it.

There is a question there that says can you lift the equivalent of a pint of milk from one place to another.
I filled the form in for someone who suffers dementia and put 'no because it will end up going all over the floor'

However anyone answering that gets no points towards their claim for ESA for that question.
Idiotic waste of paper and time of those having to claim or who has to fill in such a stupidly laid out form.

So although you would likely get him for a 'free' cup of tea, I wouldn't expect to anything other as to answers, than 'that shouldn't happen' and 'he has seen no basis to anything like that',whatever you may raise with him, as if anyone questioning him should be seen as stupid too.

He has plenty sent to him from welfare organisations, charities, the CAB, and also independent carers,medical or otherwise and also family, friends and neighbours of people sick and disabled.
All of which just gets a curt dismissal usually on his behalf and rarely from him himself.
All he can do is hide behind his Parliamentary position, facing no one face to face unless he wants to and likely on his terms only too.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good luck with that,he won't talk to anyone who can challenge him and in all interviews it is like an old pals act with the interviewer.
I would not be surprised he sets the tone of what can be asked and when.

He is the work and pensions secretary, on a Question time programme he was not even asked a single question as to benefits, the sick and disabled.

Actually however, what I would like to see him do is listen to those who have to go along to the obscene disabled work assessments and see exactly how they enact the policies the has put in place, the degrading treatment those sick and disabled in the main get there and not only them but carers or family/friends who go along with them.
I'd like to see him made to fill in every stupid and pathetically planned ESA form with its ridiculous questions for those who have to claim it.

There is a question there that says can you lift the equivalent of a pint of milk from one place to another.
I filled the form in for someone who suffers dementia and put 'no because it will end up going all over the floor'

However anyone answering that gets no points towards their claim for ESA for that question.
Idiotic waste of paper and time of those having to claim or who has to fill in such a stupidly laid out form.

So although you would likely get him for a 'free' cup of tea, I wouldn't expect to anything other as to answers, than 'that shouldn't happen' and 'he has seen no basis to anything like that',whatever you may raise with him, as if anyone questioning him should be seen as stupid too.

He has plenty sent to him from welfare organisations, charities, the CAB, and also independent carers,medical or otherwise and also family, friends and neighbours of people sick and disabled.
All of which just gets a curt dismissal usually on his behalf and rarely from him himself.
All he can do is hide behind his Parliamentary position, facing no one face to face unless he wants to and likely on his terms only too.

Seems a bit silly having to answer a question that does not go towards the point system, unless it gives them a better overall picture.
I have to say I have no complaints, from the day my daughter rang up to enquire, everybody has been very kind and helpful. The lady explained in detail what would happen and what I needed to do so I found it quite simple.
The nurse that came out to see me was lovely. She told me I would hear from them in approx 8 weeks. They contacted my doctor for a report and we're happy to go along with what she told them.
I received a letter in just over three weeks telling me that money had been put in the bank and what my 4 weekly payment would be.
I didn't have to move from my chair.
Mine wasn't ESA it was PIP. I do realise that a lot of people are having bother with it all, but only fair to show the other side of the coin.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Seems a bit silly having to answer a question that does not go towards the point system, unless it gives them a better overall picture.
I have to say I have no complaints, from the day my daughter rang up to enquire, everybody has been very kind and helpful. The lady explained in detail what would happen and what I needed to do so I found it quite simple.
The nurse that came out to see me was lovely. She told me I would hear from them in approx 8 weeks. They contacted my doctor for a report and we're happy to go along with what she told them.
I received a letter in just over three weeks telling me that money had been put in the bank and what my 4 weekly payment would be.
I didn't have to move from my chair.
Mine wasn't ESA it was PIP. I do realise that a lot of people are having bother with it all, but only fair to show the other side of the coin.

I work in a school for special needs and was asked to help families with English as a second language with their claim forms after all the negativity I have I read was pleasantly surprised at how organised it was, some families claims increased as well so it's not as bad as portrayed

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I work in a school for special needs and was asked to help families with English as a second language with their claim forms after all the negativity I have I read was pleasantly surprised at how organised it was, some families claims increased as well so it's not as bad as portrayed

...it's nice to hear that your experience has been more positive, Cherie...but just touching on that point of schools, this is something that we've/our school has been discussing a lot recently...we're having pupil referral unit after pupil referral unit closing down in our area, leaving nowhere for children who just can't fit into a main school environment to go...no school wants to not be able to take these children but sometimes just can't facilitate them, either in space they have or in finance because there's pretty much no help given/either financial or in the way of outside support/support they and their families so desperately need...also, so many referrals we're making being turned down/so those children and their families who are struggling so much and to the point of breaking in many cases...they're pretty much stuffed ..if any politician, not just IDS, but any politician had a child themselves who couldn't cope with main school environments ...would they ever think for one split second that some of the cutbacks made were ever acceptable...I doubt it...I can't imagine how it must feel to have a child who needs a more one to one type education because of their problems, to have places who could give them that being removed and to be told time and time again...no sorry, we would love to but just can't, it just isn't possible/no room at the inn I'm afraid because some children need their own classroom to themselves/a teacher to themselves etc or at least be in a very tiny group...

..there are still positive experiences, I agree..there are still some with us as well but sadly over the last few years, they've become fewer and fewer and are starting to become completely overshadowed by the more negative ones...for us it's just sad and frustrating but for those children and their families, it's so much more..they are not being given any, any chance in life...

[Kizzy]

Crikey! thanks for sharing that Joey, you must have seen countless tomes the frustration and hopelessness of those fighting tooth and nail against the system just to be heard I've been on ESA following an illness luckily for me by the time I was sent a letter to attend a WCA I was 99% recovered, had I not been I would be in the boat of having to prove myself as doctors opinions appear to count for nothing do they?
People like yourself will be a godsend for those who don't have the strength or knowledge to fight this and get the support they need, well done Joey you are one great guy! Anyone with you on their side is extremely lucky

There has got to be a point in this country where we say enough, you can't shrink our services any longer everything is being scaled back to bare essentials, how can we function as an efficient civilised society on a shoestring? Something has to give, communities are being broken down, families scattered. A decent standard of living is unobtainable for a growing number of families leading to record numbers of children growing up in poverty. I've never thought that there could be a breaking point.. But it's feeling ever closer :/.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm not disputing ANYTHING you've said about IDS or his policies Joey because I totally agree that he is abhorrent and his policies are unfair.

I have not said otherwise.

As for applauding Joey, I applaud anyone who I feel deserves applause, whether they are my pals or not, or whether they like me or not.

But the truth still remains that only one or two non-Labourites dare to post on here anymore - and I'm one of them.

Look back on most of these threads and you will see a very clear pattern of ping-pong.

I will say no more because I do not want banning.

I post my views whether anyone agrees or not, I avoid things like inbred moron generalisation andinsults and also personal attacks to other members however.
I have reached a point at times it is pointless I feel to even try to alter someones thinking as I don't believe some even listen to what I am saying.

That does not bother me in the slightest but I am member too and if I find anyone that agrees with my stance and opinion, then naturally I will support that view and even expand on what I have said to them with further debate with thembecause they are at least listening and will not come back with any uncalled for or unnecessary insults.

No one can dictate or should dictate where a thread goes as long as it stays on topic,you said IDS policies should 'not' be an issue on this thread.
I disagree absolutely with that, his policies are the full reason people get aggressive towards him and he invites that.
It doesn't make them 'inbred morons' and it also does not in my view make them wrong to get at him whenever the opportunity, rare opportunity too that is, even arises.

Also no one ever needs to worry about being banned if they stay within the rules and show a little respect even while disagreeing with other members.
With full respect.no need for terminologies that may not be acceptable to the person being termed or called something at all.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I post my views whether anyone agrees or not, I avoid things like in bred moron insults and also personal attacks to other members however.
I have reached a point at times it is pointless I feel to even try to alter someones thinking as I don't believe some even listen to what I am saying.

That does not bother me in the slightest but I am member too and if I find anyone that agrees with my stance and opinion, then naturally I will support that view and even expand on what I have said to them with further debate with thembecause they are at least listening and will not come back with any uncalled for or unnecessary insults.

No one can dictate or should dictate where a thread goes as long as it stays on topic,you said IDS policies should 'not' be an issue on this thread.
I disagree absolutely with that, his policies are the full reason people get aggressive towards him and he invites that.
It doesn't make them 'inbred morons' and it also does not in my view make them wrong to get at him whenever the opportunity, rare opportunity too that is, even arises.

Also no one ever needs to worry about being banned if they stay within the rules and show a little respect even while disagreeing with other members.
With full respect.no need for terminologies that may not be acceptable to the person being termed or called something at all.

Thank you Joey I agree 100%

[Kizzy]

Thanks Ammi, yes that's the crux of it, there just doesn't seem to be a way out for many. It's not simply form filling that's the issue it's the restrictions in social care, childrens services, mobility, the cuts to adult mental health, transitions from DLA to PIP, WCA.. endless.
For months and months there have been reports of cuts and spokespersons crying out for support, peaceful protests in London and locally. It's only now that it has reached breaking point and that it's even noticed but to criticise, it's just really sad to see so little empathy shown to those who need a hand up not a boot in the face.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thanks Ammi, yes that's the crux of it, there just doesn't seem to be a way out for many. It's not simply form filling that's the issue it's the restrictions in social care, childrens services, mobility, the cuts to adult mental health, transitions from DLA to PIP, WCA.. endless.
For months and months there have been reports of cuts and spokespersons crying out for support, peaceful protests in London and locally. It's only now that it has reached breaking point and that it's even noticed but to criticise, it's just really sad to see so little empathy shown to those who need a hand up not a boot in the face.

I don't think there is a lack of empathy, yes cuts are happening , but this demonstration was about form filling and being labelled "fit for work" and the change of system from DLA to PIP, this change has caused alot of needless stress for families as we only hear the negative stories in the media, families are frightened by what they hear, so as Smudgie said it's just showing the other side, that the system is not broken for everyone and in some case claimants are better off, no one is denying there haven't been shameful faults with the system but equally there have been success stories.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think there is a lack of empathy, yes cuts are happening , but this demonstration was about form filling and being labelled "fit for work" and the change of system from DLA to PIP, this change has caused alot of needless stress for families as we only hear the negative stories in the media, families are frightened by what they hear, so as Smudgie said it's just showing the other side, that the system is not broken for everyone and in some case claimants are better off, no one is denying there haven't been shameful faults with the system but equally there have been success stories.

Balance and truth.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't think there is a lack of empathy, yes cuts are happening , but this demonstration was about form filling and being labelled "fit for work" and the change of system from DLA to PIP, this change has caused alot of needless stress for families as we only hear the negative stories in the media, families are frightened by what they hear, so as Smudgie said it's just showing the other side, that the system is not broken for everyone and in some case claimants are better off, no one is denying there haven't been shameful faults with the system but equally there have been success stories.

Filling the fit for work form in is the easy part, the work capability assessment is the issue.
There is a lack of empathy in general imo, mention the word welfare and the word that springs to mind as the most prevalent descriptor in the media is 'scrounger'.
I agree there will be those who have had a seemless transition I'm glad of course Smudgie did, yet is this representative?
It's not just welfare affected, it's swathes of cuts to vital services and resources leaving mentally and physically incapacitated stranded, on a national level how many people is it feasible to suggest have benefited form the cuts?

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Filling the fit for work form in is the easy part, the work capability assessment is the issue.
There is a lack of empathy in general imo, mention the word welfare and the word that springs to mind as the most prevalent descriptor in the media is 'scrounger'.
I agree there will be those who have had a seemless transition I'm glad of course Smudgie did, yet is this representative?
It's not just welfare affected, it's swathes of cuts to vital services and resources leaving mentally and physically incapacitated stranded, on a national level how many people is it feasible to suggest have benefited form the cuts?

I'm only speaking from my own experience with families and yes in all cases it has been seemless and two families were moved up while the other 3 remained on the same level, I repeat I am well aware that people are falling through the cracks, and that services are being reduced, all I am saying is not everyone has been treated badly and I think this message is just as important for stressed claimants to hear as the negative stories.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm only speaking from my own experience with families and yes in all cases it has been seemless and two families were moved up while the other 3 remained on the same level, I repeat I am well aware that people are falling through the cracks, and that services are being reduced, all I am saying is not everyone has been treated badly and I think this message is just as important for stressed claimants to hear as the negative stories.

And again that's great, yet again nationally cases of individual cases or cracks and claimants pale into insignificance when weighted against the cuts to services, facilities closed and resources stripped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...s-obscene.html

http://www.theguardian.com/education...nts-jo-johnson

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10237191.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...sabled-6802010

The first few hits to 'disability cuts' on google ( don't you just love google?)

Doesn't even scratch the surface...

[joeysteele]

There should not be any faults at all in making sure people have their rights to what should be available for them and what they are genuinely entitled to.

The fact there are so many faults shows the policy has not been planned properly or that it is being enacted properly.

Great for the ones where all goes well but for those who it goes wrong for, it is massively stressful time to people who are already under great stress anyway,being vulnerable and stress too is of no assistance to people genuinely ill and disabled.

I love it when I come across a claim that gets done quickly,however, I find more and more having massive problems and lengthy delays too
Just because things maybe goes right for ,does not mean it is in any way right, and nor should it be, that for many, things go wrong and take far too much time to sort out.
To try to justify something being good when so much is going wrong, and people are being left with fewer and fewer outlets to get assistance with the problems too,is equally wrong in my view too.

The man responsible for it all is IDS and no wonder he gets jeers and shouts wherever he goes.
I rarely raise my voice to anyone, I doubt I could control that if I ever had the misfortune to come across him, from what I have seen as to the devastating effect of his heartless polices.

[Kizzy]

Britain's previously good record on housing was being eroded by a failure to provide sufficient quantities of affordable and social housing, the report said, with the result that "the structural shape of the housing sector has changed to the detriment of the most vulnerable". It called on the UK government to invest more in social housing.

The report did not hold back from documenting the combined impact of welfare reform and the housing crisis on vulnerable people, which Rolnik found on her visit had left many low income, disabled and homeless people in "tremendous despair".

And the heartless twonks dismiss this as diatribe

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...on-bedroom-tax

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Britain's previously good record on housing was being eroded by a failure to provide sufficient quantities of affordable and social housing, the report said, with the result that "the structural shape of the housing sector has changed to the detriment of the most vulnerable". It called on the UK government to invest more in social housing.

The report did not hold back from documenting the combined impact of welfare reform and the housing crisis on vulnerable people, which Rolnik found on her visit had left many low income, disabled and homeless people in "tremendous despair".

And the heartless twonks dismiss this as diatribe

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...on-bedroom-tax

And just WHERE pray tell, is all the billions needed to build ENOUGH housing going to come from? ESPECIALLY if we continue to SWELL the population by OPEN DOOR FREE FOR ALL IMIGRATION policies?

[Kizzy]

I know, don't build nuclear subs, build houses.