[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I don’t think younger people are self indulgent and entitled at all...I think they have to think differently to what was more typical for older people back in the day of their 20s/30s etc...because of all the negative changes ...younger people have to think more about pensions at an earlier age..much, much earlier ...because neither government or employer will be ‘looking out for them’ ..they don’t have the same opportunities of progressing in jobs without academic qualifications, it’s not impossible but it’s much rarer to achieve that now...investing in and striving for some type of pension in your 20s and 30s isn’t something that had to be addressed back in the day...at that early age...so the younger generation do have to consider ‘self’ quite a bit but for very good reason...I really do feel that it sucks for younger people now, compared to what I have known...

I agree in general that young people have had to deal with some additional adversity with respect to generations in the past in certain areas. However, that doesn't give then give them rights to entitlements they 'feel' they deserve simply because they weren't given the start they would've preferred. We've all had our share of adversity in our beginnings... they have the benefits though of growing up on a foundation where a lot of paths have already been smoothed out and laid for them... so I don't think I can agree they've had it harder than any other generation. Maybe some things that used to be easier are harder, but then other things that used to be harder are much easier... but overall I'd argue it's much easier than it used to be...

And when we consider the state of our respective nations to others across the Earth, it feels a bit silly to talk about these as true "hardships" when you and I live in one of the healthiest, safety and freest countries on the planet... at least the youth have momentum at which to move forward with and be mobile as a generation... in other countries, their momentum would be quite restricted to certain fields and economic levels. I don't feel that is the case for the US, not at all with the luxuries we can enjoy, but I wouldn't really know for certain with the UK, because I know almost nothing about politics or the socioeconomic situation there...

So I can't say it sucks for the younguns... at least not here.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Maru

I agree in general that young people have had to deal with some additional adversity with respect to generations in the past in certain areas. However, that doesn't give then give them rights to entitlements they 'feel' they deserve simply because they weren't given the start they would've preferred. We've all had our share of adversity in our beginnings... they have the benefits though of growing up on a foundation where a lot of paths have already been smoothed out and laid for them... so I don't think I can agree they've had it harder than any other generation. Maybe some things that used to be easier are harder, but then other things that used to be harder are much easier... but overall I'd argue it's much easier than it used to be...

And when we consider the state of our respective nations to others across the Earth, it feels a bit silly to talk about these as true "hardships" when you and I live in one of the healthiest, safety and freest countries on the planet... at least the youth have momentum at which to move forward with and be mobile as a generation... in other countries, their momentum would be quite restricted to certain fields and economic levels. I don't feel that is the case for the US, not at all with the luxuries we can enjoy, but I wouldn't really know for certain with the UK, because I know almost nothing about politics or the socioeconomic situation there...

So I can't say it sucks for the younguns... at least not here.

..I’m not really sure I understand what you’re saying, Maru...I don’t think younger people could be described as ‘entitled’ in my opinion of any younger person I know and have known...so I don’t understand the ‘feel they deserve simply because...’...yes we’ve all had our share of adversities through life and we’ve all had ‘foundations’ laid for us but I don’t think for younger people their foundation is any more or less smooth, though..but some things are certainly not much ‘easier’ for the younger generation, which I specified earlier in regards to pensions and how much earlier in life, younger people have to ‘plan’ and prepare...and how difficult it can be to progress in jobs in many areas unless academics are achieved...


...’hardships’ has me a bit confused as well...(..sorry, I’m very tired atm..)...but I didn’t infer ‘hardships’ at all, or didn’t intend to, if you feel I did...and yes, we do all live in apparent healthy, safe and free countries...but suicide rates of younger people in healthy, safe and free countries are quite disturbing also as is diagnosed mental illness in young people..in a way that I don’t recall these things so much as being the case back in the day.... of people in their teens and 20s etc...

[Kizzy]

One thing that has always puzzled me is why the left are slurred with labels that are suggesting that any moral or ethical consideration on any given topic is a negative?...
Very odd

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

One thing that has always puzzled me is why the left are slurred with labels that are suggesting that any moral or ethical consideration on any given topic is a negative?...
Very odd

It's not odd at all. The right are amoral and selfish, but they hate being called out on that hence their attempts to ridicule ethical approach to anything

the right dislikes: women rights, sexual equality, foreign aid, universal healthcare, enviroment protection, etc - things that are designed to benefit others or all of us

the right loves: tax cuts, guns, minimum financial regulation, etc - things designed to benefit individuals (only those in a position to benefit, so not everybody)

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It's not odd at all. The right are amoral and selfish, but they hate being called out on that hence their attempts to ridicule ethical approach to anything

the right dislikes: women rights, sexual equality, foreign aid, universal healthcare, enviroment protection, etc - things that are designed to benefit others or all of us

the right loves: tax cuts, guns, minimum financial regulation, etc - things designed to benefit individuals (only those in a position to benefit, so not everybody)

Wow... we've gone off the rails if we've all started to paint each other with broad strokes. I know I see people on the right like Brillo, etc who are notorious with their broad strokes (sorry Brillo), but if more and more of us start thinking like this... we're on the wrong path imo.

The right doesn't have a higher moral or ethical authority, and I don't personally feel this way about the left either. For the left, I'm more concerned we're disregarding history when we try to achieve certain things, and ignoring the ill effects on society in the process as "unfortunate side effects" is sad in any case... but there is room to disagree in how to address those side effects... I think.

I've watched a lot of left (well, my generation was raised on it) and right media. One of the arguments of the right, is that socialism is theft... which to some degree is true. It's arguing someone who earned their way through merit is not allowed to enjoy their own fruits... that because they may be earning it in a way that is "opportunistic" (are they really???), then we have to take large portions of their earnings and give it to the rest of society.

With abortion for example, both sides of the argument would consider their arguments to have the moral high-ground or setting the "actual" standard...

I think if we think we have moral authority because we hold certain opinions, that's quite sad... we don't have moral "authority" for simply our views... as there is no singular moral "authority". I hope, that we own as individuals gain however a reputation of morality... but to say because we truly believe in something, that that somehow makes "you" lesser than "I", it's regressive because we're assuming that the intentions of the person make up more than their actions...

How many people are nasty to each other just because of what they believe? That to me is not a moral behavior... and I wouldn't think higher of them simply because they had better "intentions" (and that's arguable too if they're nasty to others in order to achieve some "moral" end?...). We've become corrupted by our beliefs if we've forgotten the point to having a value system or having any sort of moral guide at all, is how we treat each other as individuals when in our company?...

Anyway, not addressing your words specifically. Some realizations hit me at once is all... and your thoughts brought a couple of things to mind up in my own mind that I felt the need to touch on...

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Maru

Anyway, not addressing your words specifically. Some realizations hit me at once is all... and your thoughts brought a couple of things to mind up in my own mind that I felt the need to touch on...

Oh, no worries. I find you are one of the most polite and thoughtful posters around, even if I may not agree with you on specific issues.

[Kizzy]

Post war people are 'entitled'... bahahaha!

In relation to 'the left' what are we disregarding historically?

'I'm more concerned we're disregarding history when we try to achieve certain things, and ignoring the ill effects on society in the process'

I've watched a lot of left (well, my generation was raised on it) and right media. One of the arguments of the right, is that socialism is theft... which to some degree is true. It's arguing someone who earned their way through merit is not allowed to enjoy their own fruits... that because they may be earning it in a way that is "opportunistic" (are they really???), then we have to take large portions of their earnings and give it to the rest of society.

Are you asking or telling here?... If you are meaning the strangle hold that capitalism has had specifically on the UK over recent years in relation to our energy, infrastructure, transport and utilities ... and now health and education then yes there very much is a need to address that.

[Maru]

I see only one yes written here (MTVN, the lonewolf), where is the other yes?... I think the morality train has been fully stopped If there's no consensus, there's no momentum (imo)... we need cooperation and mutual respect to better our society in a way that would be more productive and have more permanent change... (well, what is permanence anyway, probably thinking more 'semi-'permanent... we could all maybe die from a natural disaster in the near future

As LT would say...



)

[Kizzy]

Sorry philosophers nose to the grindstone.... geddit?

[Marsh.]

Yes, let's use twitter as a stick to beat the youths with.

There's idiot tweeters from all generations, I mean you use it yourself LT.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, let's use twitter as a stick to beat the youths with.

There's idiot tweeters from all generations, I mean you use it yourself LT.

masterful

[smudgie]

I don’t think much changes over the generations on a moral compass.
With the media and all this internet stuff we get to see more of what’s going on, or in the case of fake news what isn’t.
There will be, and has always been different degrees of morals right across the board generation wise.
I do see more of a feeling of entitlement now compared to my day, but in all honesty I think it is more down to expectations that have altered due to better chances we have in life, and its not just the younger generation that feel this way, we should all expect to have the chance to do well in our life.

[Beso]

Yeah....its payday...i voted no.

[Twosugars]

I must agree. But I'm worried if we manage to keep it together. There's a lot of good that could be lost in the upheaval.