[joeysteele]

I wasn't going to post in here as although I've been a Conservative voter in my youth.
I am unlikely to ever be so again due to the extreme loss of compassion agenda of the Party since particularly 2011, to the genuinely sick and disabled.
Something very important to me.

However, I was looking forward to reading any defence Tory voters had, or even their own misgivings as to particularly the handling of this pandemic.
The only thing outside of all out war any government has had to deal with.
So really the main and vital test of any PM and government.

Alas, just about all of the Tory voters on here have stayed silent.
Apart from MTVN and arista.
Full marks from me to arista, who recognises the shambles made of this pandemic by his own government.

I was once probed on here, I welcomed that happily, on direct and strong questions on my strong support, although not without criticism, for Labour.
I think I answered all questions put to me.
So it's surprising CON supporters have just avoided this thread.

Really this government got elected to deliver whatever Brexit it either could or wanted to.
That it has and will do.
No secret, their Brexit won't be what I feel is right but they got the mandate to do so under our outdated electoral system with less than 44% of the votes cast.

This pandemic however.
Has been a disaster of the highest proportions.

Firstly though, I commend Rishi Sunak all through so far, I say so far as I believe he's now going to be reigned in to much harder line policy soon.

For me the debacle of the protection equipment..the blatant deceit and politically lying on QT and press conferences by Hancock, a disgrace.

A lack of protection equipment, assisting the deaths of patients, Doctors, Nurses, other NHS staff and Care workers across the Country.

The blatant deceit and lies on testing figures of people and the way it's been presented.

The procrastination, reactive catching up to events of the pandemic, showing utter incompetence of the highest level.

Lastly for me though.
The scandal that is the in effect sacrificing of loved ones elderly family resident in so called Care homes.
A lack of protection equipment and being sent back to homes with this virus.
Not being tested before discharge from Hospitals.

It was the duty of any government in power to ensure the full safety of all.
It has failed, deceived and even politically lied about the issue.
The PM and Health secretary among the leading figures doing so too.

Hindsight is no excuse, we had forewarning of all that was coming.
In late January and February.
This government failed full stop to prepare and have presided over thousands of unnecessary deaths of people's loved ones, friends and neighbours.

That is and should be a National scandal and, for me, is and should be unforgivable.

This I'd be saying even had this been my Party in government.
On this pandemic particularly, the biggest test of right, competence and compassion for any government.
The UK has been dangerously and extremely badly served by this government all through.
In my view.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I wasn't going to post in here as although I've been a Conservative voter in my youth.
I am unlikely to ever be so again due to the extreme loss of compassion agenda of the Party since particularly 2011, to the genuinely sick and disabled.
Something very important to me.

However, I was looking forward to reading any defence Tory voters had, or even their own misgivings as to particularly the handling of this pandemic.
The only thing outside of all out war any government has had to deal with.
So really the main and vital test of any PM and government.

Alas, just about all of the Tory voters on here have stayed silent.
Apart from MTVN and arista.
Full marks from me to arista, who recognises the shambles made of this pandemic by his own government.

I was once probed on here, I welcomed that happily, on direct and strong questions on my strong, although not without criticism, for Labour.
I think I answered all questions put to me.
So it's surprising CON supporters have just avoided this thread.

Really this government got elected to deliver whatever Brexit it either could or wanted to.
That it has and will do.
No secret, their Brexit won't be what I feel is right but they got the mandate to do so under our outdated electoral system with less than 44% of the votes cast.

This pandemic however.
Has been a disaster of the highest proportions.

Firstly though, I commend Rishi Sunak all through so far, I say so far as I believe he's now going to be reigned in to much harder line policy soon.

For me the debacle of the protection equipment..the blatant deceit and politically lying on QT and press conferences by Hancock, a disgrace.

A lack of protection equipment, assisting the deaths of patients, Doctors, Nurses, other NHS staff and Care workers across the Country.

The blatant deceit and lies on testing figures of people and the way it's been presented.

The procrastination, reactive catching up to events of the pandemic, showing utter incompetence of the highest level.

Lastly for me though.
The scandal that is the in effect sacrificing of loved ones elderly family resident in so called Care homes.
A lack of protection equipment and being sent back to homes with this virus.
Not being tested before discharge from Hospitals.

It was the duty of any government in power to ensure the full safety of all.
It has failed, deceived and even politically lied about the issue.
The PM and Health secretary among the leading figures doing so too.

Hindsight is no excuse, we had forewarning of all that was coming.
In late January and February.
This government failed full stop to prepare and have presided over thousands of unnecessary deaths of people's loved ones, friends and neighbours.

That is and should be a National scandal and, for me, is and should be unforgivable.

This I'd be saying even had this been my Party in government.
On this pandemic particularly, the biggest test of right, competence and compassion for any government.
The UK has been dangerously and extremely badly served by this government all through.
In my view.

Thank you Joey I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said; and I’m also surprised that the conservative voters have avoided the questions, I can only imagine it’s because they know their government has failed tremendously or they don’t want to expose themselves as Tory voters

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Thank you Joey I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said; and I’m also surprised that the conservative voters have avoided the questions, I can only imagine it’s because they know their government has failed tremendously or they don’t want to expose themselves as Tory voters

Really ? lol , no one is really interested why are they ?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Really ? lol , no one is really interested why are they ?

I think People are interested.
There may be some who use it to sledgehammer another.
I'm not one.

Yet I've been branded as having anti semite leanings and a supporter of anti semitism on here simply because I support Labour.
Not by you I have to say.

So those accusations or inferences are far worse than some things Tory supporters get on here from what I've seen

You and I fiercely disagree on politics.
Not on most other things however.

I think however this is a very legitimate question asked in the thread.
This pandemic is the worst thing likely since the 2nd World War.
Now it's true,no one gets all perfect, however on this with people's lives at risk.
As near perfect as can be has to be the order of the day.
Which it hasn't been at all.

If you can really avoid and ignore the points I made in my post, which are all down to your Party in government.
That's for you to decide.

A poor comparison here, however, had I been on here in early 2000s.
At the Iraq time.

Although at that time I leaned more Conservative then.
I'd have been on here savaging any government, whether my party or another for the mess and wrongs of the Iraq war.
I'd never have supported Labour under Blair for that.
I'd have said so too.
Even had that been a CON government.

I however, cannot as a human being, for the shocking scandalous incompetence on protection equipment.
Helping result in the thousands of lost lives of loved ones in Care homes and Hospitals.
I could not with a clear conscience ignore that.

Those lives deserved to be protected and should have had everything absolutely perfect as to protection.
No room for error or any incompetence or deceit either, which sadly is all we've had in the main from Johnson and Hancock particularly.

No whatabouts here from me.
If Labour or Lib Dem or a coalition had been in power from December..
Then done the same in this pandemic as this lot.
I'd have been slamming them right, left and centre.
Endlessly.
As disgusted with them and seeing their dangerous procrastination as unforgivable for the grossly high unnecessary loss of thousands of loved ones.
Leaving families devastated.

Those are the people I care about not those in power who have failed them and others dangerously.

[Kazanne]

I vote Tory now,(no dirty secret here) I would at the moment vote Tory again ,they haven't got things perfect but no one ever does ,I refuse now to debate on it as really its just an excuse for some to vent and have a go , no one is really interested in why some vote Tory, so count me out ,but Yes I am a proud Tory supporter.

[Beso]

Tibb needs refreshed.

[Liam-]

You’ll never get a straight answer because most Tory voters like having their opinion, but don’t appreciate being questioned or having a conversation about it, like their leader they think they’re above questioning

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You’ll never get a straight answer because most Tory voters like having their opinion, but don’t appreciate being questioned or having a conversation about it, like their leader they think they’re above questioning

Thats not true
Slick Liam


I lay it on the Line.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Thats not true
Slick Liam


I lay it on the Line.

You do and have.
I commended you for it in my own post.

[Beso]

Let's all excuse the mass gatherings by blm..and their unfortunate latch ons...

Or the illegal raves the police keep being bricked away from by irate party goers all over London..


Let's not say one bad word about all that because they are black and we will look bad..but we need a target....


Oo, oo Jeremy..I know..


Let's keep mentioning dominic cummings and his family and ignore the mass breaches of lockdown by our blm brothers

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Let's all excuse the mass gatherings by blm..and their unfortunate latch ons...

Or the illegal raves the police keep being bricked away from by irate party goers all over London..


Let's not say one bad word about all that because they are black and we will look bad..but we need a target....


Oo, oo Jeremy..I know..


Let's keep mentioning dominic cummings and his family and ignore the mass breaches of lockdown by our blm brothers

Actually.
I never mentioned the advisor at all in either of my posts.

This thread is about the pandemic mainly and what the governing Party has done preparing and dealing with it.

My concern and grievance is for those elderly, those Doctors, Nurses and other workers who have lost their lives due to that shocking bad preparation, the deceit behind it, then the grief and despair families have been left with, because things weren't put in place to protect.
Even the elderly in Care homes.

Ignore that all you wish, those elderly lost their lives, thousands of them, before their time..
They were Parents, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters, friends and neighbours.

They are what I care about as to their scandalous loss of lives, especially in a Home where they should have been, and made sure to have been safe and protected.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually.
I never mentioned the advisor at all in either of my posts.

This thread is about the pandemic mainly and what the governing Party has done preparing and dealing with it.

My concern and grievance is for those elderly, those Doctors, Nurses and other workers who have lost their lives due to that shocking bad preparation, the deceit behind it, then the grief and despair families have been left with, because things weren't put in place to protect.
Even the elderly in Care homes.

Ignore that all you wish, those elderly lost their lives, thousands of them, before their time..
They were Parents, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters, friends and neighbours.

They are what I care about as to their scandalous loss of lives, especially in a Home where they should have been, and made sure to have been safe and protected.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


I also wasnt on about you personally, just the way the left has treated this pandemic and its unforgivable usage of peoples angst and despair to gain political support.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


I also wasnt on about you personally, just the way the left has treated this pandemic and its unforgivable usage of peoples angst and despair to gain political support.

No, no no.
Sorry hindsight is not an excuse.
We saw in January and February what was happening in Italy and elsewhere.
We had Hancock in parliament saying we were prepared for this.
Hancock has thrown deceit after deceit on this issue all through.
With however, the support of his PM.

We were given forewarning of all that was to come almost 2 months before it got really bad..

This isn't about hindsight at all, it's about having had forewarning well in advance, then still putting thousands of lives unnecessarily in danger and then lost too.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

No, no no.
Sorry hindsight is not an excuse.
We saw in January and February what was happening in Italy and elsewhere.
We had Hancock in parliament saying we were prepared for this.
Hancock has thrown deceit after deceit on this issue all through.
With however, the support of his PM.

We were given forewarning of all that was to come almost 2 months before it got really bad..

This isn't about hindsight at all, it's about having had forewarning well in advance, then still putting thousands of lives unnecessarily in danger and then lost too.

Where should we have put these old people?

Should we have left them? Alone.



You are a disgrace, using old people's deaths during a worldwide pandemic to accuse a government of whatever your point is..

[bots]

people can vote for who they want to ... that's democracy, and they certainly don't need to respond to baiting threads

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

people can vote for who they want to ... that's democracy, and they certainly don't need to respond to baiting threads

Of course they can and should vote who they want to.


This question however, cannot be asked of any other voter since it's the Conservatives who are the ruling party at present.

I'm sure many Labour voters were asked what they thought of their Government on Iraq.

I was once asked how could I condemn the Con party while supporting Labour an anti Semitic one.
What would you, I wonder, call that question.???

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

people can vote for who they want to ... that's democracy, and they certainly don't need to respond to baiting threads

Yep

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

people can vote for who they want to ... that's democracy, and they certainly don't need to respond to baiting threads

God imagine thinking asking for the opinion of someone else as baiting

Everyone seems to be more than happy to share their opinion in every other thread, why not do it when you’ve actually been asked for it

🤡🤡🤡

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Smithy

God imagine thinking asking for the opinion of someone else as baiting

Everyone seems to be more than happy to share their opinion in every other thread, why not do it when you’ve actually been asked for it

������

Well Smithy, my apologies to you re your thread.

I never intended to post in it as I'm not and couldn't now vote Conservative.
Although there are things I agree with them on.

This was mainly, in my view, an interesting question.

However by my posting, it seems I opened a can of worms.

I think the news and even the paper media, I never call them newspapers anymore.
However even the diehard Conservative papers have at times been exasperated and furious at the NHS staff deaths and Care home residents and staff deaths, due to the debacle of the on/ off it's coming,/it's not coming of protection equipment.

I never mind being challenged on my political stance.
Good grief, I've voted Conservative in Council elections, although in the 2010 general election, my hand wavered across Conservative and Lib Dem.
I was worried about the Cons NHS plans so voted Lib Dem then.

Once the cruel testing of the sick and disabled got worse.
Which Labour had wrongly started.
However the Cons made them far worse, during the coalition, with truly degrading tests.
Plus the top down re-organisation of the NHS promised never to be going to happen,plus tuition fees deceit.
Then I turned from both Conservative and Lib Dem leanings then.

Since 2013, I have then been a supporter and member of the Labour party.
Although in Scotland, it is the SNP I greatly respect in politics.

However, I've helped messed your thread up, so again my apologies.
May I suggest had you said, what do Labour voters think of the handling of this pandemic, had they been in power, so one for the future here on an issue.

You'd get answers a plenty, and believe me, all I've seen as a member of the Labour party, is we,their members and voters can be cruelly scathing to the leader, Cabinet and Party even when in power.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

I vote conservative but politics isn’t something I’m well versed on...but I have my reasons why I don’t vote for Labour or any other party. That’s all I’m saying...doesn’t mean I can’t come on here and read and participate in the thread if I choose...just like Kazanne can.

But I’m not asking WHY you voted for them or why you didn’t vote for someone else all I’m asking is how you think the government YOU voted has handled this crisis

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well Smithy, my apologies to you re your thread.

I never intended to post in it as I'm not and couldn't now vote Conservative.
Although there are things I agree with them on.

This was mainly, in my view, an interesting question.

However by my posting, it seems I opened a can of worms.

I think the news and even the paper media, I never call them newspapers anymore.
However even the diehard Conservative papers have at times been exasperated and furious at the NHS staff deaths and Care home residents and staff deaths, due to the debacle of the on/ off it's coming,/it's not coming of protection equipment.

I never mind being challenged on my political stance.
Good grief, I've voted Conservative in Council elections, although in the 2010 general election, my hand wavered across Conservative and Lib Dem.
I was worried about the Cons NHS plans so voted Lib Dem then.

Once the cruel testing of the sick and disabled got worse.
Which Labour had wrongly started.
However the Cons made them far worse, during the coalition, with truly degrading tests.
Plus the top down re-organisation of the NHS promised never to be going to happen,plus tuition fees deceit.
Then I turned from both Conservative and Lib Dem leanings then.

Since 2013, I have then been a supporter and member of the Labour party.
Although in Scotland, it is the SNP I greatly respect in politics.

However, I've helped messed your thread up, so again my apologies.
May I suggest had you said, what do Labour voters think of the handling of this pandemic, had they been in power, so one for the future here on an issue.

You'd get answers a plenty, and believe me, all I've seen as a member of the Labour party, is we,their members and voters can be cruelly scathing to the leader, Cabinet and Party even when in power.

Don’t worry about it Joey, it happens in every thread, one member (yourself) makes a reasonable comment which someone takes and runs with and derails the whole thing.

I can agree with your last two paragraphs too, Dianne Abbot was pretty much crucified for drinking on the train (or whatever it was) by opposition supporting forum members, here you have people blatantly breaking government guidelines and not a peep and they’re happy to act like everything is ok and the “one rule for them and another for us” attitude is completely fine it’s wrong

[Beso]

They were protected fully in those care homes until covid came along.

I'm sorry but I cant imagine many of the residents getting out and about to catch the virus so they can only have caught it from their reckless carers who a week into lockdown were well aware of the risks of thier actions outside work.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

They were protected fully in those care homes until covid came along.

I'm sorry but I cant imagine many of the residents getting out and about to catch the virus so they can only have caught it from their reckless carers who a week into lockdown were well aware of the risks of thier actions outside work.

They were sent out of Hospital with the virus, not being checked for it and returned to the Homes.
Where other elderly residents and staff were then infected, due to not having the right and enough protection equipment too.

With both residents and staff losing lives.

Despicable.

Obviously not to you however.

[Beso]

Was there checks at the time?

And I'm sorry for your pain.

[Kizzy]

I have yet to hear one single reason that makes any sense why anyone votes conservative. .. not one.

All I hear is the lesser of two evils or to keep the Marxists out ir the antisemites or some other bull excuse, no rational well thought out reason.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have yet to hear one single reason that makes any sense why anyone votes conservative. .. not one.

All I hear is the lesser of two evils or to keep the Marxists out ir the antisemites or some other bull excuse, no rational well thought out reason.

Then why keep voting for people who will never win or be in power. Do you ever consider your pov is never going to be implemented. What ever you believe in won't work so either change or quit having a pop at those who make changes

Socialism is not be what people wan't. End of. It's over.really. it's over