[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh

Women are being disciminated against in specific and broad ways. Why dont we talk about that? Why dwell on this tired old argument justifiying a somewhat misogynistic point of view?

The fact that British men dont rule the roost as much as they used to is not down to discrimination it down to some thing else called equality.

Because this is a thread about how men are discriminated! If you want to talk about how women are- create a topic for it.

Also, pointing out that men are discriminated in certain areas is not misogynistic! Would pointing out how women are discriminated make you a misandrist? No, so no double standards please!

In a way, you are sort of proving my point anyway. Your reaction to everything is to call it ‘sexist‘, ‘bigoted’ or ‘misogynistic’ yet you seem to think it'd be ok to talk about how women are discriminated in a similar way.

Like I said, if you want to do that, create a topic for it. This topic is clearly discussing how MEN are discriminated and you already said you didn’t want to talk about it.

[Scarlett.]

I saw Loose Women laugh at the fact that Men will no longer be needed in the future and they are useless, pure utter sexism, strange if it was the other way round the show would be taken off air...

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Chewy
I saw Loose Women laugh at the fact that Men will no longer be needed in the future and they are useless, pure utter sexism, strange if it was the other way round the show would be taken off air...

Ironic as well considering that program and the women presenting it are among the most useless and pointless things on tv.

[Scarlett.]

Too true

I mean they got the audience to cheer, why cant Men and Women just be equal, Women are slowly taking over by trying to get more rights than men. Just look at most programmes and listen to women going on about how men are "only after one thing" and "have a one track mind" I know for one thing I dont have a one track mind and I am after one thing; to live in a nice fair, peaceful, war free world.

Although I do understand that most women are not sexist pigs.

[Matt10k]

I know. I am also sick of being generalised or looked down upon by the media just because I am male.

The way it almost seems generally accepted with some people that ‘all men are the same’ and are ‘only after one thing’. It’s incredibly annoying.

Even adverts seem to portray this negative attitude towards men, making people believe it is acceptable to air these sexist generalisations when it is in fact no more acceptable than saying something incredibly patronising, incorrect and stereotyped about women.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Because this is a thread about how men are discriminated! If you want to talk about how women are- create a topic for it.

Also, pointing out that men are discriminated in certain areas is not misogynistic! Would pointing out how women are discriminated make you a misandrist? No, so no double standards please!

In a way, you are sort of proving my point anyway. Your reaction to everything is to call it ‘sexist‘, ‘bigoted’ or ‘misogynistic’ yet you seem to think it'd be ok to talk about how women are discriminated in a similar way.

Like I said, if you want to do that, create a topic for it. This topic is clearly discussing how MEN are discriminated and you already said you didn’t want to talk about it.

The title of the thread state 'Discriminstion against men'. I believe that to be a bunch of white British middle class men asking why they dont have such as big a say in things as they used to. After all, that is the real debate here. As I stated above that is due to equality. As a black man who grew up during worse time than this in this country I believe I have more rights than I did 20 - 30 years ago. Any talk of oppression or discrimination is ludicrous in my eyes. For my demographic it's much better than it used to be.

To focus on this truly pointless arguement or why women get cheaper car insurance or some other garbage and yet ignore the discrimination and oppression of women around the world is indeed misogynistic. Its almost like it doesn't matter.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh

The title of the thread state 'Discriminstion against men'. I believe that to be a bunch of white British middle class men asking why they dont have such as big a say in things as they used to. After all, that is the real debate here. As I stated above that is due to equality. As a black man who grew up during worse time than this in this country I believe I have more rights than I did 20 - 30 years ago. Any talk of oppression or discrimination is ludicrous in my eyes. For my demographic it's much better than it used to be.

To focus on this truly pointless arguement or why women get cheaper car insurance or some other garbage and yet ignore the discrimination and oppression of women around the world is indeed misogynistic. Its almost like it doesn't matter.

Then you are wrong because this is not how I think at all. It is nothing to do with the men of the past, it's about equality and there are areas where men are not equal. Also, for someone who is seemingly so bothered about highlighting where women are oppressed, I fail to see any effort on your part to create a thread about it.

See, some people here care about mens rights, because they are less publicised. You might find it pointless as you have said numerous times (but then continued to talk about it anyway) but I don’t.

I think areas men are discriminated in are just as valid and relevant as the other areas women are discriminated in. It just so happens, this thread is about discrimination of men so guess what people are going to talk about in it?! Discrimination of men!

If you don’t like it don't post, if you think it's so pointless. I won’t be insulted by you just because you don’t agree with me so put your misogynist argument to bed, I've already explained that highlighting discrimination is not misogynistic.

[Matt10k]

Also, I find your generalisation that this is all about a 'bunch of white, british, middle class men having less of say than they used to' offensive. This has nothing to do with race.

[GiRTh]

Would you agree that to discuss discrimination against men without ever referring to dsicrimination against women is a one sided debate? I'm only trying to add a bit of balance. I think you would like this discussion to be one sided thus totally pointless. It is is misongynistic and prejudiced of you to continue to dismiss and ignore the much more prevalent cases of discrimination against women. Instead you tell me to start my own thread. I can make my points just as well in this thread and my posts are relevant.

This issue is not an issue worthy of more than a page of discussion. This thread should be a load of people stating that discrimination against men is terrible but it is, and has been, much worse for women.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Also, I find your generalisation that this is all about a 'bunch of white, british, middle class men having less of say than they used to' offensive. This has nothing to do with race.

How so? When we had the 'men are oppressed' thread you pointed out that the thread refers to western men. Well as a western black man I think I have more rights than I've ever had. If I'm Confused then set me straight. Who exactly is the thread title referring to?

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Would you agree that to discuss discrimination against men without ever referring to dsicrimination against women is a one sided debate? I'm only trying to add a bit of balance. I think you would like this discussion to be one sided thus totally pointless. It is is misongynistic and prejudiced of you to continue to dismiss and ignore the much more prevalent cases of discrimination against women. Instead you tell me to start my own thread. I can make my points just as well in this thread and my posts are relevant.

This issue is not an issue worthy of more than a page of discussion. This thread should be a load of people stating that discrimination against men is terrible but it is, and has been, much worse for women.

But you are not balancing it at all. You are calling people who point out where men are discriminated misogynists. I have never called you a misandrist for your views on how women are discriminated. You also seem to think women are more discriminated in this country than men or that this is somehow more relevant than how men are discriminated which just shows your ignorance.

And may I point out, I am talking about TODAY. I don't see how dwelling on the past helps anything. We've already learnt those lessons and in some ways it seems men are now the ones being discriminated against, increasingly in certain areas.

Your argument is basically akin to someone starting a thread on how dogs are abused and you repeatedly chipping in saying 'but cats are abused too'! This is a thread about how men are and since I believe men and women to be equal, I find how men are discriminated just as important as how women are. Your 'balance' is basically you calling me a misogynist. It's not balance at all...

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh

How so? When we had the 'men are oppressed' thread you pointed out that the thread refers to western men. Well as a western black man I think I have more rights than I've ever had. If I'm Confused then set me straight. Who exactly is the thread title referring to?

It's offensive because you are generalising people on the grounds of race. I see no reason why black men could also care about this subject- just because you don't happen to says nothing. There will also be white men, no doubt that agree with you so it is nothing to do with race, hence labelling all those who agree with me as 'a bunch of white middle class men' and then tellling us what we think is generalising, if not borderline racism.

If I said "oh this thread is just full of a bunch of black men mad about etc etc...' I would no doubt get pulled up for it, so since we are supposedly about 'equality' here, I am pulling you up on it...

[GiRTh]

What?

In the other thread I asked who is this aimed at. You gave me an answer that made me believe it was Western men. As a black western man I'm almost entirely certain that similar men of my age will agree that this doesn't really apply to us. We have more rights than we used to have. So who exactly is the thread referring to. You seem to know but seem unable to articulate it to me. Who is this thread referring to? And please be specific. Without a target demographic then this thread becomes even more pointless.

EDIT: IT was naive to think that this debate doesn't filter down to race. It does.

[Scarlett.]

PE in my High School was incredbly sexist
Boys-Football
Girls-Netball
(Both generalisasions based on sex, not all boys like football, not all girls like netball)

Most of the time boys where out in -1 Celsius in shorts and T-shirt, we had to carry all chairs outside while girls sat down inside the sports hall

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
What?

In the other thread I asked who is this aimed at. You gave me an answer that made me believe it was Western men. As a black western man I'm almost entirely certain that similar men of my age will agree that this doesn't really apply to us. We have more rights than we used to have. So who exactly is the thread referring to. You seem to know but seem unable to articulate it to me. Who is this thread referring to? And please be specific. Without a target demographic then this thread becomes even more pointless.

I didn't create this thread but when I talk about it, I am referring to men living in the uk and other 'westernised' countries. Why would any person be excluded from talking about it? Even people outside the westernised countries may have an opinion- I just make it clear that I only think this discrimination of men occurs in westernised countries.

[Dr43%er]

Did you want to play netball?

[Matt10k]

EDIT: IT was naive to think that this debate doesn't filter down to race. It does. [/quote]

It appears to with you. I think your predjudice just shone through.

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Dr43%er
Did you want to play netball?

If I had a choice between playing football in shorts and T-shirt in -1C and playing Netball in a warm sports hall, I'd choose netball rather than catching a cold.

Plus it didnt help that our PE Teacher was a Cock filled with steriods

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
EDIT: IT was naive to think that this debate doesn't filter down to race. It does.

It appears to with you. I think your predjudice just shone through. [/quote]Not at all. I, apparently incorrectly, thought that the first thread referred to ALL men- it said as much. You were courteous enough to set me straight and tell me that it referred to Western men - Even though it didn't say so. This thread referrs to Just 'Men' but as a black western man I know from my own personal experiences that I am not being disciminated against anywhere as much as my father was or as much as I was 15 years ago. I'm simply pointing out, as I have done numerous times, that this debate refers to a specific demographic and only sights very specific and somewhat amgibuous examples. Where is the prejudice that you refer to?

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Even people outside the westernised countries may have an opinion

So nice of you to be so inclusive.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh

So nice of you to be so inclusive.

GiRth, that is because it is less likely for someone living in a muslim country for example to say men are oppressed when it is women who are oppressed there. I'm sure you understood my point but you seem determined to get the race card in there somewhere.

It was you who said this thread was probably made up of middle class white men. Like to generalise much?

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k

GiRth, that is because it is less likely for someone living in a muslim country for example to say men are oppressed when it is women who are oppressed there. I'm sure you understood my point but you seem determined to get the race card in there somewhere.

It was you who said this thread was probably made up of middle class white men. Like to generalise much?

Oh dear. I was reluctant to post in this thread for this very reason. I have, on occasion after occasion, asked you to be more specific regarding who this thread refers to, You gave me an impression that this thread referred to western men. I knew as a black wester man that there was no way I can back up the feeling in thios thread. How am I playing the race card? I'm pointing out, again, that this thread refers to a very specific demographic.. I'm a western man and there is no way in hell that I agree with the sentiment of this thread. How is that playing the race card?

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by GiRTh

Oh dear. I was reluctant to post in this thread for this very reason. I have, on occasion after occasion, asked you to be more specific regarding who this thread refers to, You gave me an impression that this thread referred to western men. I knew as a black wester man that there was no way I can back up the feeling in thios thread. How am I playing the race card? I'm pointing out, again, that this thread refers to a very specific demographic.. I'm a western man and there is no way in hell that I agree with the sentiment of this thread. How is that playing the race card?

I have noticed that you refer to the colour of your skin in each post, I dont see why as it doesnt matter what colour you are

[GiRTh]

My colour is important in this case becasue I've been trying to get this thread to focus on how narrow the debate is and how other races see things differently. There may be dsicrimination in this country on the ground of sex but not to many people out of the WASP demogoraphic are complaining.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh

Oh dear. I was reluctant to post in this thread for this very reason. I have, on occasion after occasion, asked you to be more specific regarding who this thread refers to, You gave me an impression that this thread referred to western men. I knew as a black wester man that there was no way I can back up the feeling in thios thread. How am I playing the race card? I'm pointing out, again, that this thread refers to a very specific demographic.. I'm a western man and there is no way in hell that I agree with the sentiment of this thread. How is that playing the race card?

This thread isn't 'aimed' at anyone and I already told you I didn't write it. My points are regarding how men (of all races and nationalities) are treated in the uk. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean other black people also won't- you don't speak on behalf of everyone.

You can't agree, fair enough, we knew that 10 posts ago. Why not just agree to differ and stop pulling up every point I write with how it ties into race (because it doesn't) or that women are oppressed too and then resort to insults as you have done many times by calling me a misogynist.

I have disagreed with many people here and they have all been civil apart from you.