[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Josy

The McCanns want people to discuss it that's the whole point of the Crime watch special the other night.

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

[Kizzy]

The children being alone is by and large the only reason there is a case here initially, that has to be addressed.
There is just so much emphasis on court cases against detectives and book launches...
I wonder how much of this is for the right reason?
And as has been said it's not unheard of for those close to victims to be found to be instrumental in their disappearance.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

I know, but they've raked up the entire case with this program to try and bolster their efforts to find her and because they made such a spectacle out of it all (which I think is good and bad in equal measure), it comes with the territory.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The children being alone is by and large the only reason there is a case here initially, that has to be addressed.
There is just so much emphasis on court cases against detectives and book launches...
I wonder how much of this is for the right reason?
And as has been said it's not unheard of for those close to victims to be found to be instrumental in their disappearance.

No, the reason there is a case, is because some bastard wanted to steal a child for whatever reason. Ok, the McCanns made themselves an easy target, but I honestly believe that whoever took her would have taken a child at some time from somewhere in that area .. I think the McCanns were probably watched for nights before the abduction took place.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Zee

I know, but they've raked up the entire case with this program to try and bolster their efforts to find her and because they made such a spectacle out of it all (which I think is good and bad in equal measure), it comes with the territory.

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

That is always going to be brought up in relation to it though Lee because if the kids weren't alone none of it would ever have happened.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Josy

That is always going to be brought up in relation to it though Lee because if the kids weren't alone none of it would ever have happened.

I think it would have. I don't know if somebody was paid to take her, if they wanted Madeleine specifically, or if it was a paedophile ring or gypsies.. But I do think that somebody was intent on snatching a child and unfortunately the McCanns made it easy for them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

No, the reason there is a case, is because some bastard wanted to steal a child for whatever reason. Ok, the McCanns made themselves an easy target, but I honestly believe that whoever took her would have taken a child at some time from somewhere in that area .. I think the McCanns were probably watched for nights before the abduction took place.

The abduction senario is only one theory...

[Z]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

That's very true. I think I'll try to avoid this thread now, as of course you're correct, criticising the McCanns isn't going to bring back their daughter. I'm surprised that they aren't airing the program in Portugal... it's surely more important to be broadcasting it there than over here?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The abduction senario is only one theory...

It's the only theory I believe.. And the only one I find possible

[Kizzy]

With a distinct lack of evidence tying anyone else to the scene that's hard to prove lee.
I wish we knew what happened to poor maddie, imaginations run riot when there are 101 possibilities.

[Kizzy]

It does sound incredible and heinous, but stranger things have happened.
Read some of the links provided some are really eye opening lee, you begin to see odd little things that make you wonder.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

remember Shannon Matthews?

..that's a good point because I was thinking about her after the Crimewatch programme and also other cases when parents/step-parents/family members etc have appeared on TV to make a 'plea' when a child has gone missing and I know this is just a really small thing and just a personal thing but when that happens and then eventually we find out that they were the ones responsible/guilty of a crime..?...they've always or usually appeared in the public appeal to be extremely upset and emotional...like an 'act' of trying to maybe not be suspects themselves....but with Kate, she's always tried to control herself and doing that can appear 'cold' and I think right from the start when Madeleine went missing, somehow the public didn't like that and felt she hadn't acted the way they would have expected and therefore must be guilty of something..and since then the evidence has been very inconsistent...so it kind of hasn't changed those opinions since...just because there is no firm/conclusive evidence to say the parents weren't involved...but there's equally none to say they were...

[Nedusa]

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

He is up there with the worlds most cold blooded killers if he pulled off hiding Maddie's body during his check of the children, and then calmly returned and resumed his dinner like nothing had happened. I really can't give that theory any credence whatsoever.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

i do. but again, i do not believe the parents are involved at all, and i personally think it's crazy to think so.

but that's just me. no sense in trying to change my opinion on it. i know there are some god-awful parents out there, i just don't think these ones are bad enough to kill/abduct madeline.

No, that's fair enough, they may have had nothing at all to do with it, this is all speculation on a very mysterious case

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

I wonder though if the parents had been of a lower class and had went out to the pub rather than a restaurant would anyone be defending them or asking people to stop going on about that part?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

Madeleine McCann is almost certainly dead, and either way will never be found. If "bitching" about her parents, and pointing out that what they did is not OK, not an acceptable level of parenting, selfish and careless is taken on board by one other parent or prospective parent who might then think twice about endangering their own children in the same way...

...then it is the ONLY thing that is helping anyone.

All there is left in the McCann case of any worth, is lessons to be learned by those who have children to care for.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Madeleine McCann is almost certainly dead, and either way will never be found. If "bitching" about her parents, and pointing out that what they did is not OK, not an acceptable level of parenting, selfish and careless is taken on board by one other parent or prospective parent who might then think twice about endangering their own children in the same way...

...then it is the ONLY thing that is helping anyone.

All there is left in the McCann case of any worth, is lessons to be learned by those who have children to care for.

That just highlights how twisted this case is. Constantly bitching about her parents is equally as useful as remaining silent. It really doesn't serve any purpose other than making some people whom are not related to the investigation in any way, feel as though they're the ones who have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sure they beat themselves up everyday about leaving their children alone that night, and if anyone thinks they can compete with their consciences, then they are sadly mistaken.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

That just highlights how twisted this case is. Constantly bitching about her parents is equally as useful as remaining silent. It really doesn't serve any purpose other than making some people whom are not related to the investigation in any way, feel as though they're the ones who have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sure they beat themselves up everyday about leaving their children alone that night, and if anyone thinks they can compete with their consciences, then they are sadly mistaken.

I can only assume you didn't read the post? It's not about "the real truth" - it applies even if what they're saying is 100% true. It's not about them beating themselves up or punishing themselves either. It's not about them AT ALL.

It's about not shying away from the fact that what they did was reckless, selfish and borderline neglectful. It's about refusing to further the myth that its not partially their fault due to a parental failure. It's about not letting selfish parenting become "normal" - not sitting silently while people pretend that what they did is in any way within the bounds of bare-minimum responsible parenting, not saying "what they did was fine, they just got unlucky" because it's bull****. They failed their child and SHE paid the ultimate price, not them. If saying that out loud as often and as loudly as you can means there's even SLIGHTLY less chance of other parents failing their children in similar ways, then it's worth saying. And if the McCanns happen to stumble across these sorts comments and "feel bad", then I'm afraid that's a price more than worth paying. Because its not about them or their feelings. In the context of what potentially happened to that girl - things that are unspeakably worse than her dying a covered up accident - their feelings are utterly irrelevant.

It's just an extreme example of the same **** I've been encountering for years. You can't criticise a parent, a grown adult, for ANYTHING that might "make them feel bad", even if that criticism being public might help countless children. Oh no. We must preserve "peoples feelings" at all costs. It's bull****.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can only assume you didn't read the post? It's not about "the real truth" - it applies even if what they're saying is 100% true. It's not about them beating themselves up or punishing themselves either. It's not about them AT ALL.

It's about not shying away from the fact that what they did was reckless, selfish and borderline neglectful. It's about refusing to further the myth that its not partially their fault due to a parental failure. It's about not letting selfish parenting become "normal" - not sitting silently while people pretend that what they did is in any way within the bounds of bare-minimum responsible parenting, not saying "what they did was fine, they just got unlucky" because it's bull****. They failed their child and SHE paid the ultimate price, not them. If saying that out loud as often and as loudly as you can means there's even SLIGHTLY less chance of other parents failing their children in similar ways, then it's worth saying. And if the McCanns happen to stumble across these sorts comments and "feel bad", then I'm afraid that's a price more than worth paying. Because its not about them or their feelings. In the context of what potentially happened to that girl - things that are unspeakably worse than her dying a covered up accident - their feelings are utterly irrelevant.

It's just an extreme example of the same **** I've been encountering for years. You can't criticise a parent, a grown adult, for ANYTHING that might "make them feel bad", even if that criticism being public might help countless children. Oh no. We must preserve "peoples feelings" at all costs. It's bull****.

Oh no, I did read your post. I don't think (or at least I don't remember seeing) anyone at all has said they were right to leave their children like that, but then what?

What comes after that? I'm sure what they did that night has altered the way many people parent. I'm sure these weren't the only couples in Portugal that night doing that kind of thing, and they definitely weren't the only people in the world doing it. I'm not a parent, and I often admire parents of young children that get anything done at all. I'd be a nervous wreck.

What they did was negligent, no argument, and no one is defending them on the basis of saving their feelings, and the government didn't get involved to help protect them, and there is no evidence of foul play. They made a decision that has 99.9% cost their child her life.

I believe she was abducted, as there is genuinely no good reason or evidence to believe anything else, and unless there is someone out there willing to steal a child for sexual reasons, or because someone can't conceive, then this doesn't happen.

With the numbers of people in the world, there are bound to be some loonies out there. We all hope that we manage to get through life without their paths ever crossing the paths of the people we love, but not every family will get their wish. Bad s**t happens in the world.

[lostalex]

I have absolutely no desire to travel to most foreign countries. ever. Definitely none that don't speak english.

I don't even want to travel to most places in my own country.

The only foreign countries i'd go to are Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, and Ireland.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

James was with his mom,she took her eyes off him for a few minutes ,she was also with another adult who was outside with him who also got sidetracked for a couple on minutes,the scenario is totally different and imo it's totally obscene to compare them and I think Denise and Ralph have had enough upset and disappointment over James without being lumped in with the McCann arseholes.

No comparison at all Jamie was lucky to have good parents ,and the fact his evil killers are now walking streets Denise and Ralph are still fighting and must be living a life of hell knowing their little boy will never walk the streets like they do, From early days McCanns have jumped into every other missing child case they can ,they jumped on the bandwagon of a GENUINE missing little girl called Mari Luz even going so far as to make posters showing both girls together, until her parents told them to remove them all

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

Kates clothes had Maddie cadaver on them ,she knows exactly what happened

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Yes, it did. This thread is for discussing it and all of the details. I myself wasn't aware of Maddie's comments on the morning of the incident so have posted about it etc.

The case has been reopened and brought back into the public consciousness. If you don't want to discuss it, why are you in this thread?

Not reopened its being reviewed ,the case was never closed in the first place, it is shelved and Kate could have the case reopened today if she rang Pj and agreed to answer the questions as it would be classed as new evidence .you need to ask why she doesnt