[Tom]

Nah, I'm just not going to read it because your attitude stinks and I refuse to be in an argument with someone who can't argue properly.

[CookieDough4000]

Nothing like a loser who thinks hes superior.

[MrGaryy]

i know I'll get torn to shreds by Shaun, but I agree with Tom on a lot of this. :P

[alc09]

[rquote=2592344&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2591628&tid=147768&author=alc09]Oh shut the **** up Tom, you're talking absolute shite.[/rquote]

You shut the ****** up just because someone has a different opinion to you [/rquote]
Nah, it's because your a clueless little boy.

[setanta]

I love how this forum throws up such silly threads that have no basis in fact. The reality is that Michael Jackson created a totally new brand of music that fused rock n' roll sensibilities with Motowns funk and soul, which catapulted him into the stratosphere and in doing so he became the greatest living musical icon of the last 20 odd years. Whether you like him or not, there's no denying the huge influence he's had on popular culture.

[InOne]

[rquote=2593421&tid=147768&author=setanta]I love how this forum throws up such silly threads that have no basis in fact. The reality is that Michael Jackson created a totally new brand of music that fused rock n' roll sensibilities with Motowns funk and soul, which catapulted him into the stratosphere and in doing so he became the greatest living musical icon of the last 20 odd years. Whether you like him or not, there's no denying the huge influence he's had on popular culture. [/rquote]

These people need to get it into their heads that im always right. If I say he is a legend, he is a legend.

[setanta]

[rquote=2593431&tid=147768&author=InOne][rquote=2593421&tid=147768&author=setanta]I love how this forum throws up such silly threads that have no basis in fact. The reality is that Michael Jackson created a totally new brand of music that fused rock n' roll sensibilities with Motowns funk and soul, which catapulted him into the stratosphere and in doing so he became the greatest living musical icon of the last 20 odd years. Whether you like him or not, there's no denying the huge influence he's had on popular culture. [/rquote]

These people need to get it into their heads that im always right. If I say he is a legend, he is a legend. [/rquote]

Hey, and I'm not even a particularly big fan of his - I just can recognise the huge impact he's had on popular music.

[InOne]

[rquote=2593440&tid=147768&author=setanta][rquote=2593431&tid=147768&author=InOne][rquote=2593421&tid=147768&author=setanta]I love how this forum throws up such silly threads that have no basis in fact. The reality is that Michael Jackson created a totally new brand of music that fused rock n' roll sensibilities with Motowns funk and soul, which catapulted him into the stratosphere and in doing so he became the greatest living musical icon of the last 20 odd years. Whether you like him or not, there's no denying the huge influence he's had on popular culture. [/rquote]

These people need to get it into their heads that im always right. If I say he is a legend, he is a legend. [/rquote]

Hey, and I'm not even a particularly big fan of his - I just can recognise the huge impact he's had on popular music.[/rquote]

Yeah, it's hard to deny really.

[MarkWaldorf]

Wow at some people in this thread. It's called an opinion, look it up.

[Tom]

[rquote=2593329&tid=147768&author=alc09][rquote=2592344&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2591628&tid=147768&author=alc09]Oh shut the **** up Tom, you're talking absolute shite.[/rquote]

You shut the ****** up just because someone has a different opinion to you [/rquote]
Nah, it's because your a clueless little boy. [/rquote]

You're only showing your own cluelessness here

1) I never said he isn't a legend. He is. Fact. Whether people like it or not
2) I'm not denying his influence, it just isn't as great as people think
3) The fact I don't like most of his music is IN MY OPINION, hence not a fact, so you've got no grounds to shoot me down there

Understood?

[InOne]

Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?

[setanta]

You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too.

[Tom]

[rquote=2593958&tid=147768&author=InOne]Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?[/rquote]

Point number 2, which I've said more than once already in this thread.

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

How can I back track on something I never said? You're just jumping the gun with what I actually did say.

[setanta]

[rquote=2594032&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2593958&tid=147768&author=InOne]Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?[/rquote]

Point number 2, which I've said more than once already in this thread.

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

How can I back track on something I never said? You're just jumping the gun with what I actually did say. [/rquote]

You did say it all. Read back on ur comments.

[Tom]

[rquote=2594042&tid=147768&author=setanta][rquote=2594032&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2593958&tid=147768&author=InOne]Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?[/rquote]

Point number 2, which I've said more than once already in this thread.

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

How can I back track on something I never said? You're just jumping the gun with what I actually did say. [/rquote]

You did say it all. Read back on ur comments.[/rquote]

Perhaps you should check back through my comments. I've argued all the way through his impact/legacy isn't as great as people think it is, not that its non existent. And yes I do think some of his music is sh*t, but to reiterate thats my opinion. Am I not allowed one?

[setanta]

[rquote=2594065&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2594042&tid=147768&author=setanta][rquote=2594032&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2593958&tid=147768&author=InOne]Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?[/rquote]

Point number 2, which I've said more than once already in this thread.

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

How can I back track on something I never said? You're just jumping the gun with what I actually did say. [/rquote]

You did say it all. Read back on ur comments.[/rquote]

Perhaps you should check back through my comments. I've argued all the way through his impact/legacy isn't as great as people think it is, not that its non existent. And yes I do think some of his music is sh*t, but to reiterate thats my opinion. Am I not allowed one? [/rquote]

But you've denied that he's influenced other artists and you've stated that he's unoriginal and just part of the Motown machine, nothing more. You said it all. Don't mind you not liking him but give the chap a break - he created a new form of music and has countless imitators and followers.

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

But it's not his legacy is it. It's Quincy Jones I think but since Thriller he hasn't done anything as great and Bad was a very good album but not as great. I don't think he transformed anything to be sure.

I find a lot of what he did a natural progression from what was happening in New York at the time - but in this case Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones had the backing of record companies and with it, lots and lots of money as well.

Overall, you have to question Michael's input on the album too because he worked more as a performer at the time and Quincy Jones was so frustrated with him he (allegedly) beat him up to get him back in the studio.

Overall, apart from Billie Jean - the rest of the album are very good pop songs at best. The only classic on the whole album is Billie Jean which doesn't really make it a great album or iconic.

I think he had hit heights like he has by becoming a form of idol for a lot of people.

With the help of creating one of the most expensive videos of all time... he became iconic but I don't think a lot of it has to do with the music. It was hugely financed publicity campaign built on the back of the boom on Wall Street and all the money that was available at the time.

[Tom]

[rquote=2594089&tid=147768&author=setanta][rquote=2594065&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2594042&tid=147768&author=setanta][rquote=2594032&tid=147768&author=Tom][rquote=2593958&tid=147768&author=InOne]Tom, if you agree all that, then what were you on about in the first place?[/rquote]

Point number 2, which I've said more than once already in this thread.

[rquote=2593973&tid=147768&author=setanta]You're backtracking Tom. You disagreed about his legacy and the influence he's had on this generation, calling his music s"it and unoriginal too. [/rquote]

How can I back track on something I never said? You're just jumping the gun with what I actually did say. [/rquote]

You did say it all. Read back on ur comments.[/rquote]

Perhaps you should check back through my comments. I've argued all the way through his impact/legacy isn't as great as people think it is, not that its non existent. And yes I do think some of his music is sh*t, but to reiterate thats my opinion. Am I not allowed one? [/rquote]

But you've denied that he's influenced other artists and you've stated that he's unoriginal and just part of the Motown machine, nothing more. You said it all. Don't mind you not liking him but give the chap a break - he created a new form of music and has countless imitators and followers. [/rquote]

This is the kind of view I'm arguing against. He did not create a new form of music. I never stated he was unoriginal and have not denied how he has influenced some people. but the way some people go on is as though he's god and the only person in the world to have ever influenced people. I'm simply saying his influence is overstated, how hard is that to grasp without it meaning "he isn't influential"?

And you'll find a lot of artists have countless imitators and followers, MJ isn't alone with that.

[InOne]

Well just look at the video for "Liberian Girl" nobody could get that amout of stars on a video these days. One of the best videos ever.

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2594132&tid=147768&author=InOne]Well just look at the video for "Liberian Girl" nobody could get that amout of stars on a video these days. One of the best videos ever.[/rquote]

I think they could if they are paid and I would say these guys were paid and therefore were on the video.

One of the ways Michael was defined was by the big budget over the top video for a song.

[InOne]

[rquote=2594173&tid=147768&author=MassiveTruck][rquote=2594132&tid=147768&author=InOne]Well just look at the video for "Liberian Girl" nobody could get that amout of stars on a video these days. One of the best videos ever.[/rquote]

I think they could if they are paid and I would say these guys were paid and therefore were on the video.

One of the ways Michael was defined was by the big budget over the top video for a song.[/rquote]

Nah, he had a lot of connections in the 80's and early 90's. It takes a lot for Spielberg to appear in a vid!

[alc09]

haha made yourself look like a bit of a twat there eh Tom, ****ing backtracking

[MassiveTruck]

[rquote=2594189&tid=147768&author=InOne][rquote=2594173&tid=147768&author=MassiveTruck][rquote=2594132&tid=147768&author=InOne]Well just look at the video for "Liberian Girl" nobody could get that amout of stars on a video these days. One of the best videos ever.[/rquote]

I think they could if they are paid and I would say these guys were paid and therefore were on the video.

One of the ways Michael was defined was by the big budget over the top video for a song.[/rquote]

Nah, he had a lot of connections in the 80's and early 90's. It takes a lot for Spielberg to appear in a vid!


[/rquote]

They all want to be paid mate.

[Tom]

[rquote=2595510&tid=147768&author=alc09]haha made yourself look like a bit of a t*** there eh Tom, ****ing backtracking [/rquote]

nah you're the one making yourself look like a twat, I can't backtrack on things I didn't say, although I can appear to back track when you jump the gun on what I actually did say

[alc09]

Your clueless mate, absolutely ****ing clueless.

Oh dear, I have just noticed how many posts you have.

You must have one very, very sad life.