[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I think we're just into semantics here, but actually agreeing.

Possibly - but I think it's important to distinguish between being allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat because it's what you think 'others' want you to act like: and the normal healthy balance between one partner being the dominant one.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

That really shocked me, and I always wondered why Aaron only talked footy with Mark and even Harry. I assumed Jay was a footy and fan supported Newcastle, surely. Not realising that he doesn't and that I have stereotyped him. When Aaron said his hobbies are footy, space and marine life I was pleasant;y surprised Jay seemed disinterested in footy and said they'd have sauna chat about space! He's obviously into superstitions and horoscopes which is unusual for a bloke like him, but again it makes him a bit more interesting than otherwise.

Yes, in some respects it's avoiding the cliche of man = into footy, but speaking as a man from the North East it is a bit weird to have no interest in it at all. As I'm sure it is in other parts of the country to some extent or the other, football in the North East is totally integrated into the communities of each city, with quite fierce rivalries between them and life revolving around your chosen team. I'm not sure of Jay's background, but as I've never heard his father mentioned and him claiming to be a mummy's boy, I wonder if the lack of male role models in his life can account for his lack of interest in footy and his interests in horoscopes, etc.

[LivT]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Most normal men don't like doormats.

and like a doormat, one it's been trod on enough, once it's gotten as filthy as it can get, it's normally chucked out, in favour of a fresh, clean, more pleasant looking one.

Correct!

And I also agree with Mumbles sentiments

Alex, you could possibly be correct in your assumption that Louise has fetishes. This doesn't deter from the fact that she hasn't the capabilities to understand that these matters aren't for public consumption. Again, like many things regarding Louise, it is yet another symptom of her simple nature.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Possibly - but I think it's important to distinguish between being allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat because it's what you think 'others' want you to act like: and the normal healthy balance between one partner being the dominant one.

I appreciate the difference, but allowing yourself to be dominated and being happy with that could be considered by others to be acting like a doormat. I guess it's not for us to judge other people's relationships in terms of what people are happy with, but personally I'd consider a balanced relationship to be one where the partners are equal without one being dominant, or to have such dominance if it is necesary, to vary depending on the different aspects of the relationship and not be totally one sided all the time.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'd disagree that a 'growing couple fetish' is the correct terminology for a dominant male parter.

As for any connection with feminism, I'd say that was a whole different topic of discussion.

Read an article in the Gruaniad and then a show on Radio4 about how as women become more empowered outside of the bedroom (having kids later or non at all, not as interested in marriage or having to rely on men, having greater career advances, pay etc) has led to women becoming more submissive sexually and wanting a more dominant male partner to make them feel like women ie weak. I investigated this and was shocked at how many websites there were and documentary clips of feminist women on feminist sites saying things like 'I am a top executive, a ball breaker in my job, but I want to be sp*t ro*sted by my man and his college buddies'. I assumed these women were porn stars, but it turns out that they are real. Ultimately I do suspect an awful lot of women regardless of how powerful they may be do want to submit to men #feminismisdead. Louise is the tip of the iceberg.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by LivT

Correct!

And I also agree with Mumbles sentiments

Alex, you could possibly be correct in your assumption that Louise has fetishes. This doesn't deter from the fact that she hasn't the capabilities to understand that these matters aren't for public consumption. Again, like many things regarding Louise, it is yet another symptom of her simple nature.

Precisely. The nature of the word 'Fetish' is that it IS out of the oridinary, not for general conversation, and not of the norm that is expected in polite and mannered society

sexual attraction to objects, body parts, or situations not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature.

[Kazanne]

I think Louise is just another piece of meat for Jay,sometime after they get out he will be looking for something fresh.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I appreciate the difference, but allowing yourself to be dominated and being happy with that could be considered by others to be acting like a doormat. I guess it's not for us to judge other people's relationships in terms of what people are happy with, but personally I'd consider a balanced relationship to be one where the partners are equal without one being dominant, or to have such dominance if it is necesary, to vary depending on the different aspects of the relationship and not be totally one sided all the time.

I appreciate you know the difference.

As for 'us' judging. They are on a reality TV show - to be judged on their behaviour, so I'm quite happy judging their relationship based on how they are acting, behaving, talking.

They both put themselves on the show. If they didn't want to be judged, they shouldn't have gone in the house.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Yes, in some respects it's avoiding the cliche of man = into footy, but speaking as a man from the North East it is a bit weird to have no interest in it at all. As I'm sure it is in other parts of the country to some extent or the other, football in the North East is totally integrated into the communities of each city, with quite fierce rivalries between them and life revolving around your chosen team. I'm not sure of Jay's background, but as I've never heard his father mentioned and him claiming to be a mummy's boy, I wonder if the lack of male role models in his life can account for his lack of interest in footy and his interests in horoscopes, etc.

But early on in BBOTs Jamie East visited Jay's apartment and met his mates and they *seemed* like laddish footy types. Again, that's just my stereotyping. In London, football is increasingly unpopular with young inner city boys who are preferring basketball as their sport of choice.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Read an article in the Gruaniad and then a show on Radio4 about how as women become more empowered outside of the bedroom (having kids later or non at all, not as interested in marriage or having to rely on men, having greater career advances, pay etc) has led to women becoming more submissive sexually and wanting a more dominant male partner to make them feel like women ie weak. I investigated this and was shocked at how many websites there were and documentary clips of feminist women on feminist sites saying things like 'I am a top executive, a ball breaker in my job, but I want to be sp*t ro*sted by my man and his college buddies'. I assumed these women were porn stars, but it turns out that they are real. Ultimately I do suspect an awful lot of women regardless of how powerful they may be do want to submit to men #feminismisdead. Louise is the tip of the iceberg.

I'd say that would be a very interesting debate to have - as studies have shown there is a shift in some women in the business world especially as powerful levels: but tbf, I think it's possibly a bit 'high brow' for the nature of this particular thread - ie: Is Jay going off Louise.

A reality show & how people act in a very false and enclosed environment, can't really be compared to real life, real jobs. I do think it would be a great topic for discussion though!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I think Louise is just another piece of meat for Jay,sometime after they get out he will be looking for something fresh.

She could try defuzzing I suppose, that might keep him keen...

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by CherieB

She could try defuzzing I suppose, that might keep him keen...

She'd be in paradise using his arse razor to defuzz with !

[LivT]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Read an article in the Gruaniad and then a show on Radio4 about how as women become more empowered outside of the bedroom (having kids later or non at all, not as interested in marriage or having to rely on men, having greater career advances, pay etc) has led to women becoming more submissive sexually and wanting a more dominant male partner to make them feel like women ie weak. I investigated this and was shocked at how many websites there were and documentary clips of feminist women on feminist sites saying things like 'I am a top executive, a ball breaker in my job, but I want to be sp*t ro*sted by my man and his college buddies'. I assumed these women were porn stars, but it turns out that they are real. Ultimately I do suspect an awful lot of women regardless of how powerful they may be do want to submit to men #feminismisdead. Louise is the tip of the iceberg.

It is a misconception that the need to be submissive, in whatever regard (as it broaches many levels) means you are weak minded, unintelligent a doormat or that you are generally 'weird' It's just an inherent need that anyone ( even men) can have. For those with a professional background who's job may entail them to be dominant on a day to day basis may relish in some simple role-reversal. Its generally known to be quite cathartic. Lousie's type, in effect, just give submissive women a bad name, tarring them with the same proverbial brush

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by LivT

It is a misconception that the need to be submissive, in whatever regard (as it broaches many levels) means you are weak minded, unintelligent a doormat or that you are generally 'weird' It's just an inherent need that anyone ( even men) can have. For those with a professional background who's job may entail them to be dominant on a day to day basis may relish in some simple role-reversal. Its generally known to be quite cathartic. Lousie's type, in effect, just give submissive women a bad name, because then they are all tarred with the same brush

Have I hit a raw nerve LivT,

PS: Louise is the poster girl for submissive women.

[LivT]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Have I hit a raw nerve LivT,

Ahhh, well that is for me to know and for you to dream upon, Alex

It is simple common sense to me, my friend

[Inkyfingers]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

I think Louise's initially beauty is beginning to wear off for Jay. He doesn't seem as beguiled by her any more (it started in the crypt when he admitted to Anton that she seemed really dull). Now he's criticised her for having hairy toes and hairy AND smelly arm pits.

As striking as she is, I am starting to really see why Louise is single. She's stunning, but she appears to have really poor hygiene, no boundaries (asking if she could poo on Jay) and is a bit odd.

What, Jay criticising someone elses hygiene - oh come on, are we talking about the same person here???

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Inkyfingers

What, Jay criticising someone elses hygiene - oh come on, are we talking about the same person here???

Jay I think is a bit more hygienic than Louise.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Jay I think is a bit more hygienic than Louise.

Given freezer gate and him pissing on Mark: I'm not so sure!!

I do get the feeling though that bodily fluids excluded here: that Louise is a minging mare.

Everyone in the house just about has commented on how little cleaning up she's done in the house. I'd dread to see the state of her own flat far less be in close contact with her ......

the image I will never forget was her sitting on the sofa - eating cereal - then rolling onto one bum cheek, using one hand to hold the bowl, the other wafting away the smell of her farts - and then using the same hand to grab her spoon and continue eating again.

Vile mare.

[Kazelle]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

He heard her get cheers and was shocked imo, he thought he was the only one in there to get any

I thought the same thing, his face was a picture! He didn't even break a smile.

I also thought the way he told her to stop kicking the table and the way he spoke to her in the diary room spoke volumes. He was embarassed by her.
If Aaron had done either of those things to Faye people would have been all over him, "abusive' and such.

I think with guys like Jay it's the thrill of the chase. Been there done that and now can brag to his mates that he pulled a stunner. In his eyes his street cred as zoomed so high he can't not win. I think he's bored with her now, she's shown the 'real" Louise who is actually pretty disgusting and his fantasy girl has vanished.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

the image I will never forget was her sitting on the sofa - eating cereal - then rolling onto one bum cheek, using one hand to hold the bowl, the other wafting away the smell of her farts - and then using the same hand to grab her spoon and continue eating again.

Vile mare.

That was her best bit, that's when the penny dropped that Louise

• isn't a normal girl
• she isn't even a normal model
• she's got the hygiene levels of Wynetta Slob

That was the moment she became 1% more interesting.

Also tellingly Jay bragged to Aaron of all people that he may have sh*gged Louise. Men who really like a woman never brag about them to their mates.

[Inkyfingers]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Jay I think is a bit more hygienic than Louise.

I know what you are getting at but I havent seen Louise wipe her backside across a pillow . Sorry but I just can't stand the bloke.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Inkyfingers

I know what you are getting at but I havent seen Louise wipe her backside across a pillow . Sorry but I just can't stand the bloke.

Don't get me wrong, it's well documented here that I am not a Jay fan. But Jay was doing it for a joke as vile as it is - Louise sanctioned it and thought it was 'the most romantic thing a man's ever done'. Even Jay was shocked by that. I would hate to live with Louise, she probably doesn't wash her fingers after she's been to the bog! No wonder she was the one most terrified of Kim Woodburn!

When Jay sniffed his fingers what did he mean by them smelling of like onions?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

That was her best bit, that's when the penny dropped that Louise

• isn't a normal girl
• she isn't even a normal model
• she's got the hygiene levels of Wynetta Slob

That was the moment she became 1% more interesting.

Also tellingly Jay bragged to Aaron of all people that he may have sh*gged Louise. Men who really like a woman never brag about them to their mates.

yep I agree.

Re Jay and him hinting weeks ago about what he and Louise got upto (when Aaron mentioned about her getting drunk,and did Jay have any condoms)...... given Jay's sexual history: he knew then that she wasn't the sweet wee innocent soul she made out to be - and did what any guy would do with a woman like that: uses her - and why not, she allowed it.

As for Louise being dirty (as in unhygenic) - even Alex said in the diary room about Louise wearing bottoms (shorts/ trackies?) that Alex commented, "I don't think she's ever washed them".

That's from someone who that we've not heard bitching - and Alex is in there 24/7....... tells it's own story eh!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Don't get me wrong, it's well documented here that I am not a Jay fan. But Jay was doing it for a joke as vile as it is - Louise sanctioned it and thought it was 'the most romantic thing a man's ever done'. Even Jay was shocked by that. I would hate to live with Louise, she probably doesn't wash her fingers after she's been to the bog! No wonder she was the one most terrified of Kim Woodburn!

When Jay sniffed his fingers what did he mean by them smelling of like onions?

TBF here, it was clear he meant from whatever antibacterial product he'd been using on them (as he commented on the stuff).

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I appreciate you know the difference.

As for 'us' judging. They are on a reality TV show - to be judged on their behaviour, so I'm quite happy judging their relationship based on how they are acting, behaving, talking.

They both put themselves on the show. If they didn't want to be judged, they shouldn't have gone in the house.

Fair point. I was just talking more generally really and probably wandering off topic a bit.