[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Niall

They favour a non-judgemental system based on being all inclusive for all kids no matter what their level of ability. They just try and rigorously use as many resources as it takes to get the children to learn. All teachers are required to have PHDs too (which are laid for by the state) and schools are afforded an extreme amount of autonomy.

Like I said, they have only one mandatory exam and I believe that's treated as a very relaxed affair. It's a much better system, and it's been proven to work.

Sounds so much better

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

One overiding factor here is that exams (for the majority anyway)
avoid the prospect of cheating?
You can cut and paste essays and ask clever mates/mums to 'help' with coursework?
That, I would say is a big argument for them I suppose.

I haven't heard of a single person who's gotten away with plagiarism in my school (or in any other school near me) in their coursework. They are very, very rigorous with that. People underestimate it a lot.

And if we're gonna go down that road, is it not cheating if one kid uses a revision guide whilst another doesn't? That is in a way, an unfair advantage, just as someone helping another person on their coursework is (which, again, is a rare occurrence).

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Niall

I haven't heard of a single person who's gotten away with plagiarism in my school (or in any other school near me) in their coursework. They are very, very rigorous with that. People underestimate it a lot.

And just to expand a bit on this (because it's a bit of an unfounded point), I was actually speaking with my mum about coursework today, and she told me that they will actually go through and check passages of it against the major search engines to find results for exemplar courseworks in case I (or anyone else for that matter) copied and pasted from the Internet.

People just assume that because the top grades are being attained more often now, that the exams are easier. But what if the system has managed to teach well, and kids are more intelligent as a result? No-one seems to consider that..

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niall

And just to expand a bit on this (because it's a bit of an unfounded point), I was actually speaking with my mum about coursework today, and she told me that they will actually go through and check passages of it against the major search engines to find results for exemplar courseworks in case I (or anyone else for that matter) copied and pasted from the Internet.

People just assume that because the top grades are being attained more often now, that the exams are easier. But what if the system has managed to teach well, and kids are more intelligent as a result? No-one seems to consider that..

This is true, a few months back our year had this revision tips session with some organisation that specialises in it and the woman told us (she said she shouldn't be telling us) that there's this special search engine specifically for that purpose that lots of educational institutions use to check for plagiarism. I can't remember the name of it now though.

EDIT: Found it.

http://www.copyscape.com

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Niall

It just amazes me that these people simply do not look into how the successful education systems work. I must sound like a broken record with this now, but Finland has one exam that is mandatory for students in primary and secondary education. Only one. And they have the top education system on the planet. I think that says it all really, doesn't it?

Actually, no ..... the Finnish education system is radically different to the British one, right from day 1 - to foster a culture of reading, parents of newborn babies are given three books, one for each parent, and a baby book for the child, as part of the "maternity package" .....

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This is true, a few months back our year had this revision tips session with some organisation that specialises in it and the woman told us (she said she shouldn't be telling us) that there's this special search engine specifically for that purpose that lots of educational institutions use to check for plagiarism. I can't remember the name of it now though.

EDIT: Found it.

http://www.copyscape.com

Wow I didn't think it would be that public, but it just goes to show how a lot of comsideration is put into it all.

Originally Posted by Omah

Actually, no ..... the Finnish education system is radically different to the British one, right from day 1 - to foster a culture of reading, parents of newborn babies are given three books, one for each parent, and a baby book for the child, as part of the "maternity package" .....

Is that a bad thing? Reading to children as soon as possible helps their linguistic development immensely, and you're making that out to be bad? And as a strong command of any language is vital to success within any education system, I'd say that policies with foresight such as this are excellent.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This is true, a few months back our year had this revision tips session with some organisation that specialises in it and the woman told us (she said she shouldn't be telling us) that there's this special search engine specifically for that purpose that lots of educational institutions use to check for plagiarism. I can't remember the name of it now though.

EDIT: Found it.

http://www.copyscape.com

It's called turnitin, I used it in my degree, loads of the lads on my course said prior to that they copy and pasted regularly.

I didn't say the exams were getting easier, I said learning is exam focussed...
The curriculum is so unchanged that the same questions are cropping up regularly... It's just a matter of coaching students to focus on specific areas of text rather than the play or subject as a whole.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's called turnitin, I used it in my degree, loads of the lads on my course said prior to that they copy and pasted regularly.

I didn't say the exams were getting easier, I said learning is exam focussed...
The curriculum is so unchanged that the same questions are cropping up regularly... It's just a matter of coaching students to focus on specific areas of text rather than the play or subject as a whole.

Okay, but lets be realistic: reading and analysing an entire Shakespeare text is a tall order especially when you consider the multitude of other units within English, but the 7 or 8 other GCSEs the student may be doing at the same time also.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Niall

Is that a bad thing? Reading to children as soon as possible helps their linguistic development immensely, and you're making that out to be bad?

Where was I "making that out to be bad?"



I was contradicting your implication that Finland's "top education system on the planet" was entirely due ("I think that says it all really, doesn't it?") to the fact that "Finland has one exam that is mandatory for students in primary and secondary education. Only one."

Even a cursory glance at Finland's educational system shows glaring differences between it and the British system - in comprehensive school, from 7-16, classes are small, seldom more than twenty pupils, who, from the outset, are expected to learn two languages in addition to the language of the school (usually Finnish or Swedish) - outdoor activities are stressed, even in the coldest weather - reading for pleasure is actively encouraged (Finland publishes more children's books than any other country) .....

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Omah

Where was I "making that out to be bad?"



I was contradicting your implication that Finland's "top education system on the planet" was entirely due ("I think that says it all really, doesn't it?") to the fact that "Finland has one exam that is mandatory for students in primary and secondary education. Only one."

Even a cursory glance at Finland's educational system shows glaring differences between it and the British system - in comprehensive school, from 7-16, classes are small, seldom more than twenty pupils, who, from the outset, are expected to learn two languages in addition to the language of the school (usually Finnish or Swedish) - outdoor activities are stressed, even in the coldest weather - reading for pleasure is actively encouraged (Finland publishes more children's books than any other country) .....

Well it was your phrasing and use of emoticons that made it seem that way. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Anyway, everything you've mentioned is something I think we should strive towards. Perhaps the late entry point of pupils is something that's more debatable, but everything else is marginally better than how it works over here.

I think it would allow a much less stressful environment for people to learn in. Exams cause so much grief in that sense. Learning shouldn't be such a stressful experience.

[Marsh.]

I agree about the teachers using shortcuts. Only focusing on the part of a curriculum they know will crop up in exams again and again.

It's all about statistics, get those pass and A* figures up there to make the school or an individual teacher feel good about themselves but the students are missing out on the broader education. It's all about competition instead of learning.

[Kizzy]

It's all about league tables, funding and a very restrictive curriculum.
Some kids like exams some don't thats just a fact I guess.
There may be room for controlled assessments throughout the year to check progress?

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22854908

In English language, 20% rather than the current 12% of marks will be awarded for good spelling, punctuation and grammar and a "greater range of writing skills" will be required.

A change that's been long overdue .....

Pupils who opt to take geography will be examined on the range of skills needed for fieldwork and there will be more emphasis on the human and physical geography of the UK.

I have no idea how that differs from current practice .....

New science GCSEs contain practical experiments and extended work on topics such as genetics and ecology in biology, nanoparticles and bioleaching in chemistry, and energy and space in physics.

I don't know what those will entail, but they sound interesting and challenging .....

[Kizzy]

Sound great to me.

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Absolutely awful idea and for the record, none of Gove's plans could ever be described as 'good'.

thank god these havent applied to me