[Z]

I feel sorry for the mother but I'm just a bit taken aback that the girl ate satay sauce, they didn't have her epi-pen with them and she didn't immediately realise that it was a peanut based sauce... that's what it tastes of!!

[Ninastar]

we always seem to agree <3

we make a great threesome

[Z]

Originally Posted by MarysBoyChild

we always seem to agree <3

we make a great threesome

We're going to have to work Livia's name into Zeenastar

[Cherie]

Maybe it was a tragic one off incident that the epipen was left at home, people can and do make mistakes, how many people turn up at the airport each year without their passports for example?

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

We're going to have to work Livia's name into Zeenastar

how about 'long Livia Zeenastar'

[Kizzy]

Satay sauce smells of peanuts.. it's a peanut based sauce? I can't understand how she mixed the two.
Not having her pen or medical ID with her was silly, poor girl. Mind you if I was the pharmacist I would have done it, in an emergency situation you would think anyone with any knowledge at all would try something to save a life?

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Snow Angel

Satay sauce smells of peanuts.. it's a peanut based sauce? I can't understand how she mixed the two.
Not having her pen or medical ID with her was silly, poor girl. Mind you if I was the pharmacist I would have done it, in an emergency situation you would think anyone with any knowledge at all would try something to save a life?

Yes you bloody would! Still find this absolutely shocking.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Snow Angel

Satay sauce smells of peanuts.. it's a peanut based sauce? I can't understand how she mixed the two.
Not having her pen or medical ID with her was silly, poor girl. Mind you if I was the pharmacist I would have done it, in an emergency situation you would think anyone with any knowledge at all would try something to save a life?

It's not really as simple as that. If she was walking still then it wouldn't be obvious that she was within minutes of death - and there's a risk that administering an incorrect dose of medication could kill her.

So the choice is between not giving her something and potentially failing to save a girl who is about to die - OR giving her something and potentially killing a girl who might otherwise not have died. NOW which do you choose? It's an impossible choice, and that's why there are regulations.

The truth is, the family clearly weren't aware enough of how serious an allergy like this can be. If they were, then they wouldn't have risked going out without the medication... they wouldn't have been unaware that satay is nut-based... in fact they probably wouldn't have been eating chinese in the first place (a lot of chinese food is peanut based and there's a high risk of cross-contamination). And, they would have placed her in the recovery position and told her to breathe slowly and calmly, and dialed 999 as soon as she started to react, they wouldn't have been concerned about her walking / running anywhere. They panicked, they didn't know what to do, and they made mistakes. The pharmacist made mistakes too; they should have called an ambulance themselves and stressed the urgency rather than telling the mother to "take her" to hospital.

Not sure if that means that the family are "to blame" for not educating themselves on the severity of the condition... or if it's the fault of the medical professionals who diagnosed the allergy in the first place for not being clear about the very real and very serious risks.

As it stands, I don't think anyone should be thrown under the bus for the tragic outcome of this situation... but certainly not the pharmacist. Imagine the outrage if a pharmacist did administer or provide unprescribed medication in a situation like this, and the person had a reaction to it and died? Everyone would be foaming at the mouth about professional misconduct, demanding them struck off, you'd probably even have some people suggesting they be brought up on manslaughter charges. There HAS to be protocol, it has to be followed, and hastily administering any medication "blind" is never the right choice.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not really as simple as that. If she was walking still then it wouldn't be obvious that she was within minutes of death - and there's a risk that administering an incorrect dose of medication could kill her.

So the choice is between not giving her something and potentially failing to save a girl who is about to die - OR giving her something and potentially killing a girl who might otherwise not have died. NOW which do you choose? It's an impossible choice, and that's why there are regulations.

The truth is, the family clearly weren't aware enough of how serious an allergy like this can be. If they were, then they wouldn't have risked going out without the medication... they wouldn't have been unaware that satay is nut-based... in fact they probably wouldn't have been eating chinese in the first place (a lot of chinese food is peanut based and there's a high risk of cross-contamination). And, they would have placed her in the recovery position and told her to breathe slowly and calmly, and dialed 999 as soon as she started to react, they wouldn't have been concerned about her walking / running anywhere. They panicked, they didn't know what to do, and they made mistakes. The pharmacist made mistakes too; they should have called an ambulance themselves and stressed the urgency rather than telling the mother to "take her" to hospital.

Not sure if that means that the family are "to blame" for not educating themselves on the severity of the condition... or if it's the fault of the medical professionals who diagnosed the allergy in the first place for not being clear about the very real and very serious risks.

As it stands, I don't think anyone should be thrown under the bus for the tragic outcome of this situation... but certainly not the pharmacist. Imagine the outrage if a pharmacist did administer or provide unprescribed medication in a situation like this, and the person had a reaction to it and died? Everyone would be foaming at the mouth about professional misconduct, demanding them struck off, you'd probably even have some people suggesting they be brought up on manslaughter charges. There HAS to be protocol, it has to be followed, and hastily administering any medication "blind" is never the right choice.

DO you think I answered in the thread WITHOUT thinking of the ethical constrictions of this senario?
As stated eariler in the thread there are provisos in place since 2003 for emergency supplies of meds without prescription.
There is also a world of informations at the click of a button for professionals in emergency situations. I feel MORE could have been done in the circumstances if the chemist had been slightly more proactive.
That's my take initially given the information in the article, we can't say what the outcome would have been if they had attempted to intervene as they chose not to.
The fact is they didn't even attempt to use any of the tools available, that TO ME is wrong.

[Kizzy]

I think kizzzee sounds better.... Come on you know you agree with me zee, just admit it then we can all have a nice day

[mizzy25]

horrible story. What Ive always wanted to know is how do you know your allergic to nuts and that they can kill you that quickly, unless you eat one?

[Livia]

Never mind what the pharmacist should have done, not being aware that there are peanuts in a satay sauce when you know your child is highly allergic, and leaving home without the necessary meds to save her are the keys to this story for me.

[Kizzy]

It's not what's up for debate though is it? That's a given really.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Snow Angel

It's not what's up for debate though is it? That's a given really.

The whole story is up for debate, not just the bit about the pharmacist. I don't like the spin that's been put on the story. It's already been well covered that you can't just hand out epi-pens, and that they're specially prepared for individuals. It's hard to get a full picture from one article... It looks like they're trying to lay the blame at the feet of the pharmacist. I feel sure that if it was one of your children - God forbid - you would know exactly what was in everything they ate, and they themselves would be taught to know, and you'd make sure they always had their meds with them. I find it rather strange that the mother didn't know, and didn't have the remedy, bearing in mind the daughter's acute allergy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The whole story is up for debate, not just the bit about the pharmacist. I don't like the spin that's been put on the story. It's already been well covered that you can't just hand out epi-pens, and that they're specially prepared for individuals. It's hard to get a full picture from one article... It looks like they're trying to lay the blame at the feet of the pharmacist. I feel sure that if it was one of your children - God forbid - you would know exactly what was in everything they ate, and they themselves would be taught to know, and you'd make sure they always had their meds with them. I find it rather strange that the mother didn't know, and didn't have the remedy, bearing in mind the daughter's acute allergy.

It's been well covered you can't hand out any prescribed medication except if you're a pharmacist in an emergency situation, since 2003 wasn't it?
epi pens are not pre prepared for individuals they are pre filled with 0.3ml of adrenaline, that wouldn't have killed her but could possibly have saved her or bought some time till a paramedic arrived.
The article doesn't go into how/when the allergy began, her mother should have had her meds with her no question, the suggestion is could the pharmacist done more in an emergency? Personally I think yes.
Sadly it's all too late for her.

[Vicky.]

The child had a serious nut allergy..they didnt know she was eating nuts, they didnt have her own (I presume she has one) epipen with them.

This is a tragic story, but it could easily have been avoided :/

Its unfair to blame the pharmacist really..if giving the wrong dose could also kill her. As the nuts might not have, and then the epipen did

[Kizzy]

It wouldn't take long for a pharmacist to get hold of the info he needed if he had tried a tad harder? Maybe the severity of the situation wasn't apparent until it was too late, or her reactions hadn't been as severe in the past? It's a horrible situation, it seems as if it was a shock to everyone.
Maybe it had only recently manifested? My sister was only diagnosed as coeliac (gluten intolerant) in her 50s.

[Vicky.]

The severity of the situation escalating quickly makes no difference to the fact that the parents should have checked there was no nuts in her meal, plus been carrying her medication.

I dont know how fast the pharmacist could have got hold of her perscription. So can't condemn I him/her on what ifs :S

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The severity of the situation escalating quickly makes no difference to the fact that the parents should have checked there was no nuts in her meal, plus been carrying her medication.

I dont know how fast the pharmacist could have got hold of her perscription. So can't condemn I him/her on what ifs :S

I meant the pen may have just been a precaution as she may never have had such a serious reaction previously? maybe just some tingling or slight swelling, the mum saying 'how could a peanut do this?' sounds like she wasn't prepared for or expecting this outcome.
The pharmacist was the only one who had the power to influence the outcome of this situation, he made his choice not to act, he may have saved her, he may not we'll never know.
I would like to think that in the same circumstances I would have at least attempted to.

[Vicky.]

Also if the condition hadnt been serious enough in the past to require an adrenaline shot, then there would have been no perscription to find.

I think its a bit of a silly rule, I honestly cant see how much harm a little extra adrenaline could do, but I know nothing about those kind of drugs.

The pharmacist as to cover his/her own back, or they could end up unemployed and with a hefty court case too.

[Kizzy]

After a quick look it seems that a pre-filled single dose syringe is used, anapen or epipen identified by coloured lids. Adrenaline can cause shortness of breath and an irregular heartbeat, which when you're already dying is irrelevant I guess?

[Ammi]

..all I know is that it's going to be an extremely sad Christmas for her family and if there is blame and where it lies, isn't going to change that...I really can't imagine how they're feeling and I thank God that I can't...just so tragic...

[thesheriff443]

my brothers's little girl, had her first reaction to a cashew nut, a few days ago, she spat it it out but her lips started to swell and a rash appeared instantly, she was taken straight to the doctors, she has since had a blood test, to test if she is allergic,

we are all now on nut watch.

[Ammi]

..yeah, that very first time someone has a severe allergic reaction to something is so scary and for some people it can result in tragedy..I'm glad she's ok though, Sheriff...

[Nedusa]

Given that the simple act of eating peanuts or any food containing peanuts CAN kill you I would have thought the precautions taken to ensure this doesn't happen would be strictly adhered to in all circumstances.

Also given the age of the child the parent must re-inforce these precautions and drum into the child the seriousness of this situation. So when eating out ALL food must be checked before consumption ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE with no exceptions. and the carrying of adrenaline must become second nature like a diabetic carrying insulin.

This story highlights the tragic consequences when these rules are inadvertently relaxed and like a lot of posters on here I agree that the Pharmacist could not be expected to administer the adrenaline without authority as the wrong dose could have killed the girl in any case. so I think tragic as it sounds it is unfair to put any blame on the pharmacist.

Sad tale all round it's hard to believe a food allergy can actually result in someone's death in such a casual encounter with this type of food.