[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

There was homelessness under Labour previously. There will be homelessness under Labour in the future.

With the fullest respect as always,not as much as it has risen in these last 4 years,which I have sought out and seen and helped with from my own wish to do so.

Talking to welfare groups,the CAB and charities, they all say homelessness has risen faster in the last 4 years and the Govt. has been told endlessly of that.
They do nothing,except pay lip service to the issue.

Homelessness should,in my view, never be right or for that matter acceptable to rise under any Govt.
It should be the policy to find a solution with compassion as to it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With the fullest respect as always,not as much as it has risen in these last 4 years,which I have sought out and seen and helped with from my own wish to do so.

Talking to welfare groups,the CAB and charities, they all say homelessness has risen faster in the last 4 years and the Govt. has been told endlessly of that.
They do nothing,except pay lip service to the issue.

Homelessness should,in my view, never be right or for that matter acceptable under any Govt.

And with respect back, Joey... If Ed Miliband really wants to do something, he needs to come up with a plan for getting young people, ex-military personnel, people with mental health problems off the streets and into jobs and homes. Instead he's captured by the press cynically putting money into the cup of a women who's come to this country probably specifically to beg. John Bird knows more about homelessness than I do and I defer to his summing up of Miliband's latest bit of ridiculousness. If the Tories, or indeed UKIP, get in at the next General Election it will be because Labour are being led by an donkey with no credence at all.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

And with respect back, Joey... If Ed Miliband really wants to do something, he needs to come up with a plan for getting young people, ex-military personnel, people with mental health problems off the streets and into jobs and homes. Instead he's captured by the press cynically putting money into the cup of a women who's come to this country probably specifically to beg. John Bird knows more about homelessness than I do and I defer to his summing up of Miliband's latest bit of ridiculousness. If the Tories, or indeed UKIP, get in at the next General Election it will be because Labour are being led by an donkey with no credence at all.

With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]

With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

Considering some of the things that have been said about the Tories (although not by you, I hasten to add), it was quite mild.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]

With my fullest respect,I am surprised,what an awful term to use for another human being.

Maybe he will do something if he wins power, for me he couldn't do any worse as to it than who is there at present.

Win power...... Are you kidding ??

This Man is a Dead Party leader walking, the knives are out and the whispering campaign has started.

It is no secret now that most Labour Grandees and an increasing number of Labour MP's consider Miliband a total liability who surely only deliver failure at the next election.

So in my mind he is already gone, decision has made and now it's just a case of how to replace him without damaging the Party any further.

I think now we will see the whispering campaign gaining momentum in the Press until calls for his resignation become unstoppable .

Bye Bye Mr Miliband .....

[Kizzy]

Thus in 2012 rough sleeping in England rose 6%, as compared with 23% in 2011. In London, there was a rise of 13% in recorded rough sleeping in 2012/13,pushing the two year increase to over 60%. There are growing numbers of both UK and overseas nationals sleeping rough in the capital. After falling sharply for six years, the number of statutory homelessness acceptances has risen substantially (by 34%) over the past
three years, but the increase in 2012/13 (at 6%) is lower than the previous year (14%).
There is marked regional divergence, with the growth in statutory homelessness strongly concentrated in London and the South.


And what will the asses responsible for dreaming this do when 1000s of under 25 flood the streets?

'Homeless young people have hit out against the Conservatives plans to cut housing benefit for the 18-21s, saying it would force vulnerable young people onto the streets and unsafe environments.'

http://www.centrepoint.org.uk/news-e...e-young-people

[Kizzy]

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

ed gave money to a schoolgirl

he is the reason why beggars exist

he is a disgrace

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This isn't tit for tat is it? this is discussing a matter that over the last 4yrs has escalated to endemic proportions. For me it's not a matter for nit picking who said what about whom.
Under no circumstances has this government done anything positive in relation to homelessness, and is on the cusp of making life for 1000s of under 21s more miserable what's to congratulate them for ...Nothing.
At least Ed acknowledges their existence, he can't do much else until in power can he?

I was justifying a quote I made to joeysteele. No one was suggesting it's tit for tat, I was making the point that insulting politicians is not a way street.

Taking advantage of a cheap photo opportunity doesn't make Ed the saviour of the homeless, it makes a cynical opportunist. But then, I could never respect a man who shafted his own brother to get his job. Labour have to choose another leader if they've got any hope of doing well at the General Election. Right now he's the best weapon in the Tory arsenal and they're hoping against hope he's still the Labour leader next May.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was justifying a quote I made to joeysteele. No one was suggesting it's tit for tat, I was making the point that insulting politicians is not a way street.

Taking advantage of a cheap photo opportunity doesn't make Ed the saviour of the homeless, it makes a cynical opportunist. But then, I could never respect a man who shafted his own brother to get his job. Labour have to choose another leader if they've got any hope of doing well at the General Election. Right now he's the best weapon in the Tory arsenal and they're hoping against hope he's still the Labour leader next May.

He is very 'grey' a la John Major. Where are all the dynamic politicians?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nigel Farage just been asked if he would have given money to 14 year old beggar and he said no. Asked if he ever gives money to beggars he said no.

He said that so many of the street beggars in London are organised by gangs and that he agrees with John Bird that giving money to beggars eeven if by chance they are genuine is keeping them down, not helping them up.

Nigel saying it straight and speaking for the people

[joeysteele]

Actually John Bird has put more people on the streets selling the big issue, day after day, some often just selling barely a few of them too,since you can in some cities find them all the way down the strrets and at every turn too.

I really cannot see where it is a major help to the homeless either really.

I actually find more people moan when they seea big issue seller than they do someone sitting on the pavement saying nothing really.
What likely irritates people about those sitting on the pavement is that their consciences may hit them.
I agree some people feel uncomfortable seeing and passing such individuals,some people can just walk on regardless,not bothered at all at them being there, then you get others,who actually ring the Police to see if they can be moved on.

As I said,I do buy the big issue from various sellers,however even when you have it in your hand, other big issue sellers are moving closert o you shoving their copies in front of you.

John Bird has not got the answer,the big issue is not the way to eradicate people homeless on the streets, it needs to be worked out with the charities who know where the homeless are and also what needs they have.
The problem is, no votes are seen to be got from the homeless so politicians ignore the problem largely.

Charities will be starting soon for Christmas in its help for those homeless,what an eye opener it is to be involved with causes like that and get to see and talk with those who are vulnerable and homeless.
Not shove them on the streets in all weathers freezing, raining, snowing for near all day selling a paper/mag.

In the city I am near, I was in it 3 days ago and across 4 streets of it were no less than 12 big issue sellers.
Know what, the thing I am most thankful of is that I am not homeless and would have topossibly live like that for any part of everyday.
However,I will never ignore and turn my back on them.Seeing how much I could do to help both financially and physically rather than judge and condemn.

[arista]

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-i-hope-m...own-sake-99984

Listen to Nigel talk about Ed Milliband this morning

[Northern Monkey]

Looks like Labour could be in trouble if they don't get over this,Either by ousting Milliband or starting to back him and concentrate on the election.They don't need this now though.Maybe they're thinking a new leader might breathe some life into the party and get voters heads turning away from UKIP.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

Looks like Labour could be in trouble if they don't get over this,Either by ousting Milliband or starting to back him and concentrate on the election.They don't need this now though.Maybe they're thinking a new leader might breathe some life into the party and get voters heads turning away from UKIP.

It is in all parties, we had Charles Kennedy on uestion time last night saying he didn't vote for the Lib Dems joining this Coalition, David Cameron has really massive problems with this Rochester by election because the fear is,if he loses it badly to an MP who only entered the Commons in 2010,it could trigger greater dissent in more of his MPs.

This may yet, not be the last by election of this Parliament if some Conservative MPs feel they can safely hold onto their seats on a UKIP ticket as Carswell and Reckless will have.

UKIP are on the rise,no doubt at all as to that and the more they rise, the more David Cameron also becomes isolated.

Labour's problem is presentation, Ed Miliband need to look at 2 years ago, when he was etting the agenda on the bedroom tax and the energy price freeze.
He has allowed himself to become a little complacent,Labour also need to push more to the front the real strong players in their team. Such as Chukka Ummunah, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Rachel Reeves to name just 4.
Get the presentation right, stress it more and more and the masage is a far more hopeful one and in my view,better one than the Govt, currently has.

The thing is, the 2 main 'old' parties are both running scared of UKIP,I still believe UKIP will hit both but the Conservatives more,however I do really wish Ed Miliband would also offer an EU referendum, that would halt the backbench worries and take the heat out of the EU debate too.
It is that Ed Miliband is seen to be lot listening to those backbenchers that is helping cause this unrest.
I think he has the right ideas and will be compassionate and strong where that needs to be done but he does have to wake up to this and get his presentation for the campaign ready and presented more confidently.

The 2015 election is starting to look,with all 3 main parties at a loss as to UKIP,as if it will be a really poor show all the way through if all this keeps up from all of them.

[arista]

[joeysteele]

The polls are odd,It is the way questions are asked that often 'guide' an answer one way or another.
I will wait to see if these headlines are actually true in the full context of what the MPs are supposed to be saying.
I almost could belive some Labour MPs don't actually want to win the 2015 election,some in the Labour party for instance,never liked either Miliband brother anyway.

I tried this out today on just 20 people,not scientific,10 each with a differently put question.
To the first 10, I asked ''with the recent publicity of Ed Milband's performances do you think he could be a good PM''.
All said No.

To the second 10, I asked, ''Do you believe Ed Miliband as PM could be trusted to carry out Labours policies for the NHS and scrapping the bedroom tax''
9 said yes, 1 said no.

It doesn't prove anything but it would seem highlighting the negatives holds back support for him,while if these moaning MPs got out with the positive, strong and united message on the policies they all agree on, a different response seems probable as to him.

The press are having a field day at present but they ignore the rpoblem fo how hard it is to challenge and change a Labour leader at present.
I feel sure Tristram Hunt has been misquoted and would liek to hear all he ahs to say from himslef, not with the journalistic doctoring.
Tristram Hunt,if he does feel that way, should then test the water for himself on the party and see if he could ever get enough MPs to publicly back a leadership challenge.

I think he would end up being very disappointed, so these MPs should put up or shut up and get on with the job of exposing the heartlessness of this present Conservative led govt and the dangerous and unjust policies it would bring in,were it to ever get any kind of overall majority in 2015.

Love him or loathe him, when your leader has his back to the wall you avoid any situation that will make things worse for him and in turn the Party overall.
If Tristram Hunt for one, has these thoughts then he should resign from the Shadow Cabinet or be thrown out along with anyone else who intends working against the leadership rather than for it.

It is simply too late to change leader now,way too late,however even where Labour are in the polls now, they would be the next govt. or the lading Party in it.
Labour MPs should think hard before they speak on the issue to any journalist,trust their leader not journalists and certainly never anyone from the rotten sick Mail.

There are rumblings obviously,that cannot be denied, however this talk of any change of leader is futile and ridiculous.
Just as in the Conservative party, they have MPs who would see Cameron gone tomorrow too, a good number see him already as a loser,failing to win an overall majority in 2010.
They for sure know with the UKIP situation and how he has fared in the polls since early 2011, he is a pretty strong bet for being an even worse loser again in 2015.
Even if he stayed on the 30% to 33% the Conservatives have now and Labour even went down to the 29/30% it got in 2010.

That represents the very sad state of all the Parties and politics at the present time.

[Kizzy]

People are so fickle, why would they have faith in someone they have heard nothing of over Ed? Again it's playing right into the hands of the conservatives who are ramping up the pressure I see, can't see what's in front of them some people it's ridiculous.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

People are so fickle, why would they have faith in someone they have heard nothing of over Ed? Again it's playing right into the hands of the conservatives who are ramping up the pressure I see, can't see what's in front of them some people it's ridiculous.

I agree with you Kizzy.
Being honest, I would rather there had been a different leader of Labour than Ed Miliband, however he is the leader and in fact he and the policies he has accepted as firm policies has won me over from my previous Conservative background and my voting Lib Dem in 2010.
His efforts and the policies of his Labour Party have done that.

I think every main 'old' party has a poor leader really,you have Nick Clegg who in fact, has the unenviable fact of not only his word meaning nothing but also anything he signs his name to either.
Then we get David Cameron,guaranteeing no top down re-organisation of the NHS,then doing it,causing absolute dismay and chaos in the NHS, despite it neither being in his manifesto or the Lib dems.

Then he goes on about the EU, saying it is an important issue that needs to be sorted.
He said that over 2 years ago, then feels this important issue can wait over 2 years until the next election.
Then he states if, I stress if, he gets an overall majority,only then will he set out to get a better deal from the EU for the UK.
He will then unbelievably take another 2+ years on this important issue to do re-negotiations and only then afterwards hopefully hold a referendum by the end of his then almost 3rd year in power again.

If this is how he treats an important issue, lord help us as to the other things that need sorting by Govt.
He has no intention of holding a referendum,none at all unless it was clear that the voters would vote to stay in, he knows for big business,that would have to be the case.
he could in fact have done the re-negotiations these last 2 years he has rambled on about them and then in 2015, be able to offer a firm referendum date,that is, 'if' he was really genuine as to it.

So he is now another one not to be trusted at all with anything and certainly nothing important.

That is why despite all the issues and problems Ed Milband has,I support him and his Party.
He has not had the chance to show us what he can really deliver,the old 2 have and it has been a disaster so for those reasons and the policies Labour have in putting the wrong things right again,I will support Ed Miliband and Labour and help give him that chance.

Only then will we see if he can be trusted too and what kind of PM he could and would be.
However he couldn't possibly do worse than these 2 leaders we have had running things these last near 5 years now, who have been an almost totally incompetent and sadly heartless shambles.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree with you Kizzy.
Being honest, I would rather there had been a different leader of Labour than Ed Miliband, however he is the leader and in fact he and the policies he has accepted as firm policies has won me over from my previous Conservative background and my voting Lib Dem in 2010.
His efforts and the policies of his Labour Party have done that.

I think every main 'old' party has a poor leader really,you have Nick Clegg who in fact, has the unenviable fact of not only his word meaning nothing but also anything he signs his name to either.
Then we get David Cameron,guaranteeing no top down re-organisation of the NHS,then doing it,causing absolute dismay and chaos in the NHS, despite it neither being in his manifesto or the Lib dems.

Then he goes on about the EU, saying it is an important issue that needs to be sorted.
He said that over 2 years ago, then feels this important issue can wait over 2 years until the next election.
Then he states if, I stress if, he gets an overall majority,only then will he set out to get a better deal from the EU for the UK.
He will then unbelievably take another 2+ years on this important issue to do re-negotiations and only then afterwards hopefully hold a referendum by the end of his then almost 3rd year in power again.

If this is how he treats an important issue, lord help us as to the other things that need sorting by Govt.
He has no intention of holding a referendum,none at all unless it was clear that the voters would vote to stay in, he knows for big business,that would have to be the case.
he could in fact have done the re-negotiations these last 2 years he has rambled on about them and then in 2015, be able to offer a firm referendum date,that is, 'if' he was really genuine as to it.

So he is now another one not to be trusted at all with anything and certainly nothing important.

That is why despite all the issues and problems Ed Milband has,I support him and his Party.
He has not had the chance to show us what he can really deliver,the old 2 have and it has been a disaster so for those reasons and the policies Labour have in putting the wrong things right again,I will support Ed Miliband and Labour and help give him that chance.

Only then will we see if he can be trusted too and what kind of PM he could and would be.
However he couldn't possibly do worse than these 2 leaders we have had running things these last near 5 years now, who have been an almost totally incompetent and sadly heartless shambles.

That would almost be too sensible to not believe the desperate smokescreens and slur campaigns of the right wing media, it's so sad how gullible the public are... seriously frightening joey, as you say how the heck could it ever be any worse?
Everything they have done has been to line their own pockets..lobbying fraud, cronyism, expenses scandals, cash for honours. It's all forgotten about due to this silly non story, pathetic.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That would almost be too sensible to not believe the desperate smokescreens and slur campaigns of the right wing media, it's so sad how gullible the public are... seriously frightening joey, as you say how the heck could it ever be any worse?
Everything they have done has been to line their own pockets..lobbying fraud, cronyism, expenses scandals, cash for honours. It's all forgotten about due to this silly non story, pathetic.

Kizzy what about The Labour MP's that want him out?
Thats the only Factor that Fecking matters here

[arista]

And Kizzy
This Ain't a Right Wing Paper
Let alone todays Observer


Toxic Ed

[joeysteele]

With respect arista a lot of Jewish voters are disillusioned with all the Parties stances on Palestine, however just because it may offend some sections of society,it isn't wrong to be pushing for a state for Palestine.

It will be and is the real only way to a lasting peace of sorts in that area probably,many Nations are coming round to that too and of course it will have to be done with full consultation with Israel.
I have every sympathy for Israel,it is a Nation surrounded by nothing but hostile other Nations as to its existence but it has to be protected too.

There was a vote in the House of Commons, not in any way a firm vote of recognition of a Palestinaian state but certainly a testing of the water and it was carried by a good margin.
So in fact all Parties in the UK are moving to this being the only way ahead but I hope it is done with agreement and support for it eventually from Israel too.

For some Jewish voters to turn against Labour for their stance on this, is not really reasoned politics, this is also old news, I am surprised you missed it but Maureen Lipman ,a likely lifelong Labour supporter stated she was not going to support Labour now at least a week ago.

Well that's fine, however to be living here in the UK and believe in the labour policies for the NHS and be against most of the other social policies of this Govt.
Then to throw all that out and stop supporting a Party for that party saying something should be done,while not advocating doing it on a whim, shows a very sad reasoning for me from her, andalso by those who make this the only issue as to who they will support in an election in the UK.

Well she and others can vote Conservative or Lib Dem then or even UKIP,what is their view on Palestine, does anyone know, I don't.
However I think it wrong that in the UK which has served such voters well overall and which they have dedicated themselves to as well, to make these silly, 'right, I don't agree with that so I am not voting for them again' statements is I am sorry to say in my view a childish and ridiculous position to take.

I am supporter of Israel,they are a Nation that have to be ever watchful in the area they are in as to their existence even.
I also believe in a Palestinian state too, my hope is that both Israel and the Palestinians will in time,sooner rather than later, find their way to that table again and work things out.

That does not mean however that any other Country or any Party in another country has not the right to say what it believes is right to happen and to set out to probably support same.

[arista]

"Maureen Lipman"

Yes Joey

Things Change.


But also the Observer
is Not Right Wing