[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niall

But, note how in the entirety of that statement there's absolutely no outright support of same sex marriage. Just the mere suggestion that making marriage areligious might be a goal. Instead they'd rather give us a second rate version as was the case before. I don't care what you say, a lack of obvious support is dubious at the best of times.

And it's not my 'blinkered' perception. If people who supported UKIP looked at the real problems of this country they'd see that its problems lie with precisely the people that manifest UKIP in the first place. Rich, right wing fools like Farage are those that drag this country down. The tories were bad enough before these more extreme idiots came along.

Farage is not rich, he lives in a semi detached house in kent worth 540k and earns 79k a year

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

Religions are important though. You can't expect a religion to change their entire belief system to incorporate gay marriage. Everyone should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony, whatever your sexual persuasion. However, you cannot force religions to marry people against their beliefs. I could not marry in a synagogue because my husband wasn't a Jew. I don't believe I should have a demonstration and try to make them change the rules.

Also, not being able to have a serious, grown up discussion about immigration and the overpopulation of our tiny island without being branded a racist has fuelled to the rise in support for UKIP.

I agree with this.I have nothing against same sex marriage as long as the churches religious rights are also respected.I.E having 100% pressure free choice of wether they wish to conduct the marriage.If they are fine with it then no problem.But if it is against their beliefs then they should have to right to decline.Also what about Mosques?Would they be forced to conduct gay Muslim marriages.I highly doubt it,Would'nt wanna upset the Muslim community would we.In which case that leads to inequality between different religions.

[Northern Monkey]

I think the media has alot to do with painting an unsavoury image of UKIP tbh.This statement has alot of truth in it.

'what people need to wake up to is the serious media slant on this. Recently a Lib Dem councillor in Worcester Park, South West London, pleaded guilty to racially aggravated assault. If this had been a UKIP councillor, or even a far removed ex member of UKIP, it would have been splashed across the pages of all the national newspapers and covered by all the main broadcasters. Yet, because he is a Lib Dem and therefore it does not fit the media agenda, Stephen Fenwick’s unprovoked attack on a man in a bar where he called him a ‘migrant’ and told him to ‘go back to his own country’ resulting in a year-long conditional discharge and fine of £200, has been confined to only the local press. Compare this to the coverage of Henley Town Councillor David Silvester when he wrote to the local paper expressing some rather wide of the mark, yet personally held religious views attributing the Same Sex Marriage Act to the recent flooding. Although his comments were certainly eccentric, and to many unpalatable, they were his opinions, not the party’s and he had long been making them to his local paper throughout his tenure as a town councillor. It was only when he defected to UKIP from the Conservatives, that these regular letters expressing the deep religious beliefs of an actually well-liked and respected elderly man, suddenly made national newspapers as the latest let’s-mock-UKIP-media fodder. It’s hardly balanced is it?'

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Farage is not rich, he lives in a semi detached house in kent worth 540k and earns 79k a year

sounds like he's rich to me...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by SelenaSnowmez

sounds like he's rich to me...

That is hardly rich and certainly not the rich that Liam is going on about.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think the media has alot to do with painting an unsavoury image of UKIP tbh.This statement has alot of truth in it.

'what people need to wake up to is the serious media slant on this. Recently a Lib Dem councillor in Worcester Park, South West London, pleaded guilty to racially aggravated assault. If this had been a UKIP councillor, or even a far removed ex member of UKIP, it would have been splashed across the pages of all the national newspapers and covered by all the main broadcasters. Yet, because he is a Lib Dem and therefore it does not fit the media agenda, Stephen Fenwick’s unprovoked attack on a man in a bar where he called him a ‘migrant’ and told him to ‘go back to his own country’ resulting in a year-long conditional discharge and fine of £200, has been confined to only the local press. Compare this to the coverage of Henley Town Councillor David Silvester when he wrote to the local paper expressing some rather wide of the mark, yet personally held religious views attributing the Same Sex Marriage Act to the recent flooding. Although his comments were certainly eccentric, and to many unpalatable, they were his opinions, not the party’s and he had long been making them to his local paper throughout his tenure as a town councillor. It was only when he defected to UKIP from the Conservatives, that these regular letters expressing the deep religious beliefs of an actually well-liked and respected elderly man, suddenly made national newspapers as the latest let’s-mock-UKIP-media fodder. It’s hardly balanced is it?'

A cracking post Paul.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

That is hardly rich and certainly not the rich that Liam is going on about.

Perfectly true - a lot of our Labour Councillors are earning more than that when their B.S. scamming 'expenses' are totted up.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Religions are important though. You can't expect a religion to change their entire belief system to incorporate gay marriage. Everyone should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony, whatever your sexual persuasion. However, you cannot force religions to marry people against their beliefs. I could not marry in a synagogue because my husband wasn't a Jew. I don't believe I should have a demonstration and try to make them change the rules.

Also, not being able to have a serious, grown up discussion about immigration and the overpopulation of our tiny island without being branded a racist has fuelled to the rise in support for UKIP.

I dare not post on this subject the truth of what I know because it will make me more unpopular on here than I already am.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niall

They oppose same sex marriage? And I don't even need to start deconstructing their immigration policies because we all know it's fuelled by the xenophobic concept that immigrants 'degrade' this country.

Next!

Isn't UKIP the party that in their original manifesto said that they would allow shopkeepers the right to bar people due to prejudicial grounds? If so then that's a ****ed up party for anyone to want to rule the country surely? Especially considering that they'll be more against the working class than even the Tories are considering they're even further right wing.

And as I know that a lot of the UKIP voters secretly want this to be the case they won't actually get rid of the Muslims from Asia and Africa like they're hoping for because they're cheap labour, but we will lose our civilized European neighbours under a UKIP Government.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Mockerdeer

Isn't UKIP the party that in their original manifesto said that they would allow shopkeepers the right to bar people due to prejudicial grounds? If so then that's a ****ed up party for anyone to want to rule the country surely? Especially considering that they'll be more against the working class than even the Tories are considering they're even further right wing.

And as I know that a lot of the UKIP voters secretly want this to be the case they won't actually get rid of the Muslims from Asia and Africa like they're hoping for because they're cheap labour, but we will lose our civilized European neighbours under a UKIP Government.

i heard they want to use space aliens for cheap labour and bring back slavery too


bloody racists

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

i heard they want to use space aliens for cheap labour and bring back slavery too


bloody racists

There's no need to be sarcastic.

If their policy even has any defense for it then you can surely use it.

Or the fact that they want anyone hanged that believes in the EU.

And they want to cut food banks down so the poor suffer even moreso.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Farage is not rich, he lives in a semi detached house in kent worth 540k and earns 79k a year

You do realize that a lot of rich people live in Kent right? Especially ex-Tory Bankers.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Mockerdeer

There's no need to be sarcastic.

If their policy even has any defense for it then you can surely use it.

Or the fact that they want anyone hanged that believes in the EU.

And they want to cut food banks down so the poor suffer even moreso.

i have no idea what you are on about

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

i have no idea what you are on about

On which part? The sarcastic remark? Or UKIP's so called policies away from let's pull out of Europe?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Mockerdeer

On which part? The sarcastic remark? Or UKIP's so called policies away from let's pull out of Europe?

Or the fact that they want anyone hanged that believes in the EU.

[the truth]

farage is an absolute legend, the ONLY man with the guts and backbone to speak the truth....he also does it with style and humility and has brilliantly sidestepped the petty mud slinging of politicians and the nasty populist narcissist russell brand. farage has been particulalry epic in completely exposed the corrupt disgusting monsterously wasteful burocratic nightmare that is europe

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

farage is an absolute legend, the ONLY man with the guts and backbone to speak the truth....he also does it with style and humility and has brilliantly sidestepped the petty mud slinging of politicians and the nasty populist narcissist russell brand. farage has been particulalry epic in completely exposed the corrupt disgusting monsterously wasteful burocratic nightmare that is europe

The Truth has spoken

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Livia

Religions are important though. You can't expect a religion to change their entire belief system to incorporate gay marriage. Everyone should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony, whatever your sexual persuasion. However, you cannot force religions to marry people against their beliefs. I could not marry in a synagogue because my husband wasn't a Jew. I don't believe I should have a demonstration and try to make them change the rules.

Also, not being able to have a serious, grown up discussion about immigration and the overpopulation of our tiny island without being branded a racist has fuelled to the rise in support for UKIP.

I wasn't saying religions aren't important, of course they're important! My point was more that he was using that as an excuse to not fully support the legalisation of gay marriage wholesale. Instead he used that to give conditions on its legalisation and back himself up when trying to bring up civil partnerships as an alternative. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, he won't support it fully so that indicates some degree of intolerance to me (and judging by the way UKIP members act, such feelings aren't exactly unfounded).

I guess that's true to some degree, but everyone's agreed now that immigration needs sorting. It does, and that's obvious. But I just wish people would open their eyes and see UKIP for the monstrous pile of manure that they are, and how their 'solution' for immigration is one of many things that will utterly destroy this country economically and culturally.

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Farage is not rich, he lives in a semi detached house in kent worth 540k and earns 79k a year

80k a year? A house worth over half a million in Kent? Not rich? Ok my deluded friend, ok.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Scrooge

i heard they want to use space aliens for cheap labour and bring back slavery too


bloody racists

Not being funny but seeing how into the free market they are it wouldn't surprise me if they supported slavery in the name of improving profits and reducing losses.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niall

I wasn't saying religions aren't important, of course they're important! My point was more that he was using that as an excuse to not fully support the legalisation of gay marriage wholesale. Instead he used that to give conditions on its legalisation and back himself up when trying to bring up civil partnerships as an alternative. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, he won't support it fully so that indicates some degree of intolerance to me (and judging by the way UKIP members act, such feelings aren't exactly unfounded).

I guess that's true to some degree, but everyone's agreed now that immigration needs sorting. It does, and that's obvious. But I just wish people would open their eyes and see UKIP for the monstrous pile of manure that they are, and how their 'solution' for immigration is one of many things that will utterly destroy this country economically and culturally.

I think what he said was that civil partnerships would be available to everyone, as in heterosexual couples could also opt for a civil partnership which they can't do right now. And he doesn't have to support gay marriage wholeheartedly. Plenty of of MPs voted against it. If that's what people believe then they have a right to think that way, even though it's legal now and I personally don't agree with them.

I am not a supporter of UKIP, and they certainly don't help themselves with some of the loose canons they have shooting off their mouths without engaging their brain... but I do agree with some of the stuff they say, for instance, open borders with Europe has been a disaster. That's not to say some people shouldn't be able to come and work here if they have something to offer. Nigel Farage's wife is German, he's not saying no one should be let into the country, ever.

[kirklancaster]

Anyone who believes the official figures on immigration is living in 'La La land'. Treble them and you might be nearer the mark.

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants coming here are just hard-working, honest souls who just want a better life is living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who believes that our Benefits System mainly benefits those in real need are living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants are not exploiting loop holes in our Benefits System to the tune of 100's of millions of pounds per year are living in 'La La land.

Anyone who doesn't believe that organised crime; from prostitution to drug trafficking, cloned credit card fraud, shoplifting gangs to Housing Benefit fraud, 'Boiler Room' and 'Long' Companies, to 'Ponzi' schemes, is run by immigrants is living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who doesn't believe that the problem is getting worse and is set to continue to get worse as unfettered immigration escalates, is living in 'La La land.

Someone needs to do something - and quickly - and I personally don't give a rat's arse if it's UKIP or not.

There - said it - now I feel better.

[the truth]

an official increase of population of 8 million in less than 20 years in a small island is mental and thats just the OFFICIAL figures, you can bet your candy ass theres millions more...and we wonder why the nurses cant run the hospital wards and the waiting lists are out of control and the hospitals are 20 times filthier than some countries who dont have totally open borders

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think what he said was that civil partnerships would be available to everyone, as in heterosexual couples could also opt for a civil partnership which they can't do right now. And he doesn't have to support gay marriage wholeheartedly. Plenty of of MPs voted against it. If that's what people believe then they have a right to think that way, even though it's legal now and I personally don't agree with them.

I am not a supporter of UKIP, and they certainly don't help themselves with some of the loose canons they have shooting off their mouths without engaging their brain... but I do agree with some of the stuff they say, for instance, open borders with Europe has been a disaster. That's not to say some people shouldn't be able to come and work here if they have something to offer. Nigel Farage's wife is German, he's not saying no one should be let into the country, ever.

I know that, but it's still a mildly homohobic thing to do (opposing it that is), hence my using that as a reference point for saying they're homophobic.

I suppose so. But his attitude is so ridiculously over the top I just despair at people taking him seriously. He's a moron.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Anyone who believes the official figures on immigration is living in 'La La land'. Treble them and you might be nearer the mark.

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants coming here are just hard-working, honest souls who just want a better life is living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who believes that our Benefits System mainly benefits those in real need are living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants are not exploiting loop holes in our Benefits System to the tune of 100's of millions of pounds per year are living in 'La La land.

Anyone who doesn't believe that organised crime; from prostitution to drug trafficking, cloned credit card fraud, shoplifting gangs to Housing Benefit fraud, 'Boiler Room' and 'Long' Companies, to 'Ponzi' schemes, is run by immigrants is living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who doesn't believe that the problem is getting worse and is set to continue to get worse as unfettered immigration escalates, is living in 'La La land.

Someone needs to do something - and quickly - and I personally don't give a rat's arse if it's UKIP or not.

There - said it - now I feel better.

Anyone who thinks any of that contains a cent of truth is also clearly living in 'la la land'.

[Mystic Mock]

Saying that most of the problems in this country is caused by foreigners is living in la la land.

Especially when it comes to stuff like the recession which was Farage and his fellow Bankers fault for bankrupting not just this country but the whole world.

And crimes get committed by all sorts of people, to say that it's mostly foreigners is crazy imo.

And to Scrooge The Daily Telegraph reported about wanting people hanged for wanting to be in the EU, and we all know how right wing they are so they're not as agenda driven against UKIP like someone said about the Media earlier.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Anyone who believes the official figures on immigration is living in 'La La land'. Treble them and you might be nearer the mark.

Statistics are never going to be 100% accurate but... treble? Really? ... this is just nonsensical. Do you need to borrow a hyperspoon to help you dish this **** out of your hyperbole?

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants coming here are just hard-working, honest souls who just want a better life is living in 'La La land'.

Anyone who believes that the majority of immigrants are not exploiting loop holes in our Benefits System to the tune of 100's of millions of pounds per year are living in 'La La land.

In both cases, "the majority"? Come on! No one is trying to claim that there aren't people out to abuse the system - both immigrants and people born and raised right here at home. Of course there are. There will always be people looking to exploit things to their advantage. But the MAJORITY of immigrants are dastardly, scheming layabouts who have some sort of supernatural ability to exploit loopholes and get away with it, that aren't being exploited by people here already? More nonsense.

Anyone who believes that our Benefits System mainly benefits those in real need are living in 'La La land'.

The vast (VAST) majority of the benefits budget is spent on wage top-ups (tax credits, child benefits, etc.) for normal British families. Working families. Because full-time work on anything less than around £11 an hour is not enough to run a household at all let alone to any sort of decent standard. Even the "living wage" (£7.85) is an absolute joke, unless you believe that it's possible to run a household / support a family on < £15000 a year (hint: it isn't). So yes. Our benefits system mainly benefits those who need it: normal, working UK families with children. That is just how broken the UK wage structure vs. the cost of living is.

Anyone who doesn't believe that organised crime; from prostitution to drug trafficking, cloned credit card fraud, shoplifting gangs to Housing Benefit fraud, 'Boiler Room' and 'Long' Companies, to 'Ponzi' schemes, is run by immigrants is living in 'La La land'.

Again, all of them? If we stop immigration, all of these problems will suddenly be solved, I suppose? We'll be living in a utopia where everyone stops in the street to tip their cap and give a fine how-do-you-do? Yes, there are immigrants involved in organised crime. And white british people, too. Not to mention plenty of home-grown would be gangsters eager to step right up if indeed all of the immigrants were to be removed. The problem, then, is that we're not tackling organised crime very well, surely, rather than it being an immigration issue?

Anyone who doesn't believe that the problem is getting worse and is set to continue to get worse as unfettered immigration escalates, is living in 'La La land.

Someone needs to do something - and quickly - and I personally don't give a rat's arse if it's UKIP or not.

The terms "baby" and "bathwater" come to mind. You want better controlled immigration so let's elect people who are promising that, no matter what other prejudiced and small-minded policies they might have? Who CARES if they round up all of the gays and send them back to their homeland (la la land, is it?) so long as we also get rid of the dirty sand****ers running prostitution rings out of their ill-gotten council houses too, right? Yarrrrr and whar's me pitchfork?