[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Where does it say this?

I see no clarification between ages/previous employment/etc. Just 'rarrr obese'.

OK younger and any age
Obese
That Refuse To Work
due to using "being Obese as the reason why"

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

That is a good point and a very valid one that is discounted by those who just want to bash benefit claimants overall.

You see,I hear this govt saying that no one on benefits should be getting in as benefits more than if they were in work.
Another example similar to what you have said, I came across someone who had worked over 45 years from leaving school.
His memory started to fade and he had to give up work, why should he too, have to take such a massive drop in income for being genuinely ill.

What he is getting is a pittance compared to his original salary, paying into a system for all his working life, then having to hear people on benefits demonised and got at all the time.
For me, people likek him should certainly have more coming in than he has and this govt; along with presvious govts; too,Labour failed too, never go looking for the people who should be getting certain benefits which are provided.
We rarely if ever, hea of the benefits that go unclaimed by people, however govt;s never lift a finger to make sure they get them.
That comes down to welfare organisations, the CAB and charities, if and when they come across a person who should have them.

Sadly some like to take the hard line and prefer to believe the media and this govt; with their 'odd' case of benefit cheats and it is very easy indeed to brand people lazy from looking in from the outside, branding them all the same,when more often than not that is not the case,as I found out, when you get out there and talk to and see how people are struggling.
Real support is a good thing, support doesn't fit in with financial blackmail as to threat of loss of income however.
There is little in the way of any compassion and fairness from this PM as to these issues and as to supposed 'support'.

[Vicky.]

Tbf too IDS could do with losing a few pounds himself. Maybe he should have less full englishes paid for by the public purse What he spends on one breakfast would support another person for half a week...

[InOne]

I'm glad not many people actually pay attention to these faux outrage articles. Another good deflection by the media and government to divert us from the real problems of the country.

[DemolitionRed]

And of course, this doesn't affect working middle class Britain. All these silly threats are like Inone says, taking our eye off the government and creating a blame society.

I have never been unemployed, I count myself fortunate, I have never claimed benefit but I'll never say never and I have never been obese but I count myself fortunate. I am sick to death of the propaganda our government and popular media are spewing out about those people in Britain that really do struggle. This is class hatred at its absolute worst.

And I've had one too many glasses of wine but it is valentines day!!

[DemolitionRed]

What its actually saying is, if you are unemployed and obese and if you refuse help regarding your obesity, benefits could be cut.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

What its actually saying is, if you are unemployed and obese and if you refuse help regarding your obesity, benefits could be cut.

Would this be help as in the help currently offered to the disabled? Ie. see a retired midwife (not even a gp half the time...nevermind a specialist) who decides your mental health issue is false and subsequently kicks you off benefits to help you get into work etc...

[Johnnyuk123]

They should give them food parcels and stop handing over hard cash. That way there won't be the wrong foods in their house in the first place and it can only help them in the long term with weight issues.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

They should give them food parcels and stop handing over hard cash. That way there won't be the wrong foods in their house in the first place and it can only help them in the long term with weight issues.

Good lord, this is 21st century Britain not the dark ages,I would be against any govt; planning what people could have as to what to eat and when.

There is a lot I would support and that could be done by 'voluntary support and advice' as to obesity and drug/alcohol addictions,however when at the end of things,the threat to remove part or all income comes into play,that stinks to high heaven,in my view, as to what this govt; terms as support and advice and as to its real agenda.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good lord, this is 21st century Britain not the dark ages,I would be against any govt; planning what people could have as to what to eat and when.

There is a lot I would support and that could be done by 'voluntary support and advice' as to obesity and drug/alcohol addictions,however when at the end of things,the threat to remove part or all income comes into play,that stinks to high heaven,in my view, as to what this govt; terms as support and advice and as to its real agenda.

This^

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good lord, this is 21st century Britain not the dark ages,I would be against any govt; planning what people could have as to what to eat and when.

There is a lot I would support and that could be done by 'voluntary support and advice' as to obesity and drug/alcohol addictions,however when at the end of things,the threat to remove part or all income comes into play,that stinks to high heaven,in my view, as to what this govt; terms as support and advice and as to its real agenda.

Well right now we give out cash and let people decide what they want to spend it on, unfortunately the majority spend it on the usual junk food, cigs and booze.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Well right now we give out cash and let people decide what they want to spend it on, unfortunately the majority spend it on the usual junk food, cigs and booze.

yea, heaven forbid anyone have any pleasure in life, lets go back to the soviet model. everyone gets rations of bread and meat, just enough to survive. no extra, no indulgence, everyone just taken in the basic needs and live basic boring unpleasurable lives...

how dare humans want to do pleasurable things!!

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yea, heaven forbid anyone have any pleasure in life, lets go back to the soviet model. everyone gets rations of bread and meat, just enough to survive. no extra, no indulgence, everyone just taken in the basic needs and live basic boring unpleasurable lives...

how dare humans want to do pleasurable things!!

It's not pleasure to live in the gutter as an alcoholic or druggie, or to be so fat that you cut 30 years off your life.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yea, heaven forbid anyone have any pleasure in life, lets go back to the soviet model. everyone gets rations of bread and meat, just enough to survive. no extra, no indulgence, everyone just taken in the basic needs and live basic boring unpleasurable lives...

how dare humans want to do pleasurable things!!

I agree totally, I am becoming more and more disappointed at the lack of understanding and compassion being shown in the UK towards its most vulnerable.

Some actually believe every benefit claimant is wrongly in some way getting money, rather than taking on board the independent official statistic that says only around at best 1% are.
Ina recent channel 4 debate on this, Richard Bacon revealed that only 0.8% of claims could be wrong or by fraud.

To listen to this govt; the media and other real hardliners, you'd think it was the other way round.
Easy to judge and condemn all from the outside by believing a biased and prejudiced media and this heartless buch of cowards we have as a govt; now that can only sanction and penalise the weakest.

I really think I may emigrate in the near future if the UK keeps on the road of these unfair misjudgements of the vast majority of those who are the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable in the UK.
This govts; cruel and heartless demonising policies, make me almost ashamed to be British.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Well right now we give out cash and let people decide what they want to spend it on, unfortunately the majority spend it on the usual junk food, cigs and booze.

'If' they really are spending it more on booze and cigs as you say,and I'd like to see your official independent statistics as to the majority of doing so, at least a great deal of tax is then going back to the treasury,if they are,from buying those things.
That actually makes them considerable tax payers themselves too in that case.

If there is an agreed entitlement that people should have why then should any govt; say how they should spend same.
That would amount to dictatorship.
Not a road I would want to go down in the UK at all.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

'If' they really are spending it more on booze and cigs as you say,and I'd like to see your official independent statistics as to the majority of doing so, at least a great deal of tax is then going back to the treasury,if they are,from buying those things.
That actually makes them considerable tax payers themselves too in that case.

If there is an agreed entitlement that people should have why then should any govt; say how they should spend same.
That would amount to dictatorship.
Not a road I would want to go down in the UK at all.

Great post Joey, i would like to see some actual figures as well instead of the sweeping generalisations made, similar to all immigrants being on benefits when it has been proven that most immigrants pay much more into the system than they take out ..a bit off topic I know but just for comparison

[waterhog]

this argument is not valid as you are picking on a group of people - if this was about anything else it would be challenged.

[Kizzy]

Just bring back the workhouse and give the poor gruel and have done with it...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Just bring back the workhouse and give the poor gruel and have done with it...

Shhh Kizzy, Don't give David Cameron and Ian Duncan Smith that info.

The sad thing is I am pretty sure they would, if they thought they could get away with it.

[Kizzy]

This is just a red herring to divert people away from the issue of tax avoidance anyway, nothing will come of it it's too unspecific it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to implement.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is just a red herring to divert people away from the issue of tax avoidance anyway, nothing will come of it it's too unspecific it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to implement.

Kizzy ,I hope you are not working my corner tonight (swings bag at Kizbot)

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Kizzy ,I hope you are not working my corner tonight (swings bag at Kizbot)

Shhhhhhh... we'll have to declare our income if you blab, are lube and nip tassels tax deductible?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Shhhhhhh... we'll have to declare our income if you blab, are lube and nip tassels tax deductible?

ha ha,I'm hoping to gain a few pounds tonightI'll be obese if it's a good night.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is just a red herring to divert people away from the issue of tax avoidance anyway, nothing will come of it it's too unspecific it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to implement.

This too.It would probably cost too much to implement to be worth doing.

[Kazanne]

Well we may aswell all leave work,get fat and live off the state,seriously NO one is saying those that don't need benefits should not get them,but there ARE certain sections of society that ARE lazy,do NOT want to work and benefits is their way of life,I give up on this thread ,I really do.