[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by RodHull

I agree with your first 2 points but this I dont.

The producers didnt just think 'hey for s**ts and giggles lets ruin our successful show' it was dieing on its arse after BB4 and was in slow but steady decline from then on.

BB5, BB6 and BB7 all got high viewing figures. Higher, or the same as (BB6) than BB4 (Which actually got decent viewing figures for Channel 4)

They started ******ing with the format cause of a number of reasons, one of the main ones was the public constantly sabotaged their own viewing experience leaving the final weeks as the most boring thing on tv.

This is nonsense. The reason the final 2 weeks are invariably boring is because the housemates see the end in sight. As for big characters getting evicted... Fine, it makes the eviction nights much more interesting.

Its viewing figures always started high then nosedived as the series went on and the big characters went.

No, it did not. In BB3 the viewing figures went up in the last 3 weeks. In BB5 it was the same story. BB6 was mostly consistent. BB7 suffered as a result of Nikki getting evicted. But the only reason she was evicted was because of interference with the nominations. They punished Jayne by putting everyone up but her. So the producers interference was to blame. It's not that they sabotage their own show, it's that they are idiots.

TBF the producers made a hash of rectifying this and just messed it up further but they had to try something as it was not working. And largely still doesnt.

Every time the producers have got involved they have made the show worse off. Nikki would never have gone when she did but for the producers making the decision they did. They would never have got themselves in trouble had they not put Jade and her family in and let the treatment of Shilpa get out of control. BB8 would never have been such a flop had they started with a proper cast and not been so heavy handed with Emily.

Almost every bit of interference in this show has damaged it.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

BB5, BB6 and BB7 all got high viewing figures. Higher, or the same as (BB6) than BB4 (Which actually got decent viewing figures for Channel 4)

Producers said themselves they totally misjudged BB4 and the show was in jeopardy from then on. BB5 6 and 7 got on average slightly around same viewers as BB4 but with arguable superior casts so it was clear the show was in decline from then on out, from BB8 onwards it nosedived badly.

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

This is nonsense. The reason the final 2 weeks are invariably boring is because the housemates see the end in sight. As for big characters getting evicted... Fine, it makes the eviction nights much more interesting..

No it isnt, its cause the ones who make the show watchable and interesting are all gone, no better example exists than BB1 itself, which made headlines with Nick Bateman, then he went and the last weeks were like watching paint dry.

In almost every series (last year was a notable exception) the biggest characters are all gone 3 or 4 weeks before the end and it just grinds to a halt.

And the eviction night is just 1 show why sacrifice the best characters to watch just for 1 night and leave yourself with boring ****s to watch

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

This is nonsense. The reason the final 2 weeks are invariably boring is because the housemates see the end in sight. As for big characters getting evicted... Fine, it makes the eviction nights much more interesting.

Now, I agree with this. The final week or so will always be quieter and in series which are heavy in drama that is a welcome relief and calm down before the final.

Especially if the housemates in that final week have been there from the start for a full 2-3 months then they calm down as the end is in sight and they are exhausted no doubt.

[minny03]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

The show has had a complete revamp and that is why it is in the toilet it now is. The biggest change made to it was the lack of live coverage. The second change is the constant interference. The third change was the astonishingly bad process of casting.

The show needs a better revamp. Get rid of VTE, have the housemates take part in mentally stimulating or physically demanding tasks, (rather for them to sit in that house week after week doing nothing but menial or pointless tasks), and the evictions need to take place inside of a studio, which would make the housemates less likely to know who is popular since they won't be hearing cheers and "Get _____ out!" every week. Like the OP or someone else mentioned, the behavior of certain housemates change once they hear people booing or whatnot, so that has to stop too.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by minny03

The show needs a better revamp.

What it needs is a return to what it used to be. It succeeds or fails ultimately on having housemates that capture the imagination. But we need to be able to get to know them first.

[Jack_]

The House Next Door Part 1 is the best twist of all time, and Part 2 really wasn't that bad either

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The House Next Door Part 1 is the best twist of all time, and Part 2 really wasn't that bad either

It was a totally unneccessary twist that brought in 4 housemates nobody cared about. I liked Aisleyne, but I'd rather she had stayed in over Suzie and that was that. In that time they lost Lea and then Nikki, lost half a million viewers as they saw off Jayne, Spiral and Michael and then in an effort to get viewers back up, they got Nikki back in.

It was little more than the latest attempt to recreate the bedsit. They did the same the year before with Orlaith, Eugene and Kinga, and that didn't really work. By the time they did in in BB7 it was just stupid. And by BB8, with the half way house, it was so absurd it was insulting.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

It was a totally unneccessary twist that brought in 4 housemates nobody cared about. I liked Aisleyne, but I'd rather she had stayed in over Suzie and that was that. In that time they lost Lea and then Nikki, lost half a million viewers as they saw off Jayne, Spiral and Michael and then in an effort to get viewers back up, they got Nikki back in.

It was little more than the latest attempt to recreate the bedsit. They did the same the year before with Orlaith, Eugene and Kinga, and that didn't really work. By the time they did in in BB7 it was just stupid. And by BB8, with the half way house, it was so absurd it was insulting.

No it wasn't, it was a well thought out and clever twist that had been planned months in advance of the series even starting, which is something we never ever get on C5 anymore. Granted the new housemates weren't all that great, but that wasn't really the best part or the point of the twist. It was the falsehood of having Aisleyne 'evict' four of them, only to then lead up to the live Tuesday episode where she had to evict either Jonathan or Spiral live to both houses and the viewers, and produced one of the best twist reactions ever in the process.

The whole thing was slick, exciting and tense and was executed to absolute perfection and is the kind of thing that's missing from Big Brother today. I agree that there are too many twists these days, but when they are done sporadically and right as in the C4 days, they can be amazing. As the House Next Door was.

I wouldn't really call it a Bedsit remake either as the point wasn't to watch the housemates in the main house which is all secret rooms consist of these days. And The Secret Garden was totally different as well, another well thought out twist that revolved around them having to sneak around the main house, which was both hilarious and exciting.

And the ex-housemates returning HND may have caused controversy but who cares, the series needed a bit of life injecting into it and it worked. It was great to see them four again (even if they weren't my ideal choices), and Nikki deserved her place in the final week.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No it wasn't, it was a well thought out and clever twist

How was it clever? It was a combination of the fake eviction/bedsit (bb5) and people living next door (BB6). It ruined the flow of the series and brought in total non-entities who they spent the next 2 weeks evicting and viewing figures dropped.

that had been planned months in advance of the series even starting, which is something we never ever get on C5 anymore. Granted the new housemates weren't all that great, but that wasn't really the best part or the point of the twist. It was the falsehood of having Aisleyne 'evict' four of them, only to then lead up to the live Tuesday episode where she had to evict either Jonathan or Spiral live to both houses and the viewers, and produced one of the best twist reactions ever in the process.

All twists produce funny reactions when they are revealed. Bringing in the "Legends" did.

The whole thing was slick, exciting and tense and was executed to absolute perfection and is the kind of thing that's missing from Big Brother today.

It was a tired attempt to recreate what had happened before, and they've never stopped trying to recreate such moments ever since.

I wouldn't really call it a Bedsit remake either as the point wasn't to watch the housemates in the main house which is all secret rooms consist of these days. And The Secret Garden was totally different as well, another well thought out twist that revolved around them having to sneak around the main house, which was both hilarious and exciting.

It was a combination of both. A fake eviction and people living next door.

And the ex-housemates returning HND may have caused controversy but who cares, the series needed a bit of life injecting into it and it worked. It was great to see them four again (even if they weren't my ideal choices), and Nikki deserved her place in the final week.

Nikki being allowed to win caused an enormous fuss and got them in a lot of trouble. Nikki being evicted caused the viewing figures to drop. They buggered the show up by putting everyone but Jayne up, and then they did even more damage to the show by bringing her back.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

How was it clever? It was a combination of the fake eviction/bedsit (bb5) and people living next door (BB6). It ruined the flow of the series and brought in total non-entities who they spent the next 2 weeks evicting and viewing figures dropped.

Creating an entire separate house within the main structure that was a secret, the twist of 'you have to evict four' but she wasn't really and then the surprise of her having to genuinely evict one of the remaining two for real on the special live show. The whole thing was planned to perfection and wasn't some tacky, embarrassing nonsense like we get from the production team these days.

From the way Big Brother spoke to her, from the fact Davina spoke to the house, to her re-entrance, the list goes on.

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

All twists produce funny reactions when they are revealed. Bringing in the "Legends" did.

There's a clear difference between the tacky montage they produced for the legends entrance (and most secret room re-entrances these days) that actually spoil the surprise before they even enter, and the surprise and tension as Aisleyne realised she'd have to evict one of Spiral or Jonathan with everybody watching, and then her tears that lasted the rest of the evening. Enthralling television. I don't remember anything like that in any other twist reaction.

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

It was a tired attempt to recreate what had happened before, and they've never stopped trying to recreate such moments ever since.

Not true, it was a genuinely new twist idea (I know you'll say it wasn't but it was) that these days they seem to have run out of, and yes, you're right, they do keep trying to recreate them. Although I wish they would do a secret room with new housemates where there isn't a live feed a la the HND/Secret Garden/Halfway House.

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

It was a combination of both. A fake eviction and people living next door.

Not really true either. Yes it was a fake eviction, but there were no headphones for spying like the Bedsit had. It was a secret house in which Aisleyne had to 'evict' four of the newbies only to lead up to the amazing night in which she had to evict one of them for real. A totally different twist to the Bedsit and the Secret Garden, and miles apart from the recycled Bedsits we get these days.

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

Nikki being allowed to win caused an enormous fuss and got them in a lot of trouble. Nikki being evicted caused the viewing figures to drop. They buggered the show up by putting everyone but Jayne up, and then they did even more damage to the show by bringing her back.

I know it did, but they still made the right decision. The public know (and knew) nothing, bringing her back was a good idea.

I'm not denying they made other mistakes punishment wise throughout the series like that, but twist wise BB7 is about as near perfection BBUK has ever got.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No it wasn't, it was a well thought out and clever twist that had been planned months in advance of the series even starting, which is something we never ever get on C5 anymore. Granted the new housemates weren't all that great, but that wasn't really the best part or the point of the twist. It was the falsehood of having Aisleyne 'evict' four of them, only to then lead up to the live Tuesday episode where she had to evict either Jonathan or Spiral live to both houses and the viewers, and produced one of the best twist reactions ever in the process.

The whole thing was slick, exciting and tense and was executed to absolute perfection and is the kind of thing that's missing from Big Brother today. I agree that there are too many twists these days, but when they are done sporadically and right as in the C4 days, they can be amazing. As the House Next Door was.

I wouldn't really call it a Bedsit remake either as the point wasn't to watch the housemates in the main house which is all secret rooms consist of these days. And The Secret Garden was totally different as well, another well thought out twist that revolved around them having to sneak around the main house, which was both hilarious and exciting.

And the ex-housemates returning HND may have caused controversy but who cares, the series needed a bit of life injecting into it and it worked. It was great to see them four again (even if they weren't my ideal choices), and Nikki deserved her place in the final week.

I think you are overestimating how good the HND was. I like the twist, don't get me wrong. But it really wasn't as well-executed as you make out when the secret house wasn't even soundproof, and Aisleyne pretty much knew she was sending people to the main house, which defeated the whole purpose and just made it predictable and less of a surprise to Aisleyne and the remaining HND housemates

The HND used to be my favourite secret room. But, after recently re-watching BB5, I think the Bedsit is far superior - that was riveting viewing, and that's from re-watching it after more than a decade later.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Beetlejuice

It was a totally unneccessary twist that brought in 4 housemates nobody cared about. I liked Aisleyne, but I'd rather she had stayed in over Suzie and that was that. In that time they lost Lea and then Nikki, lost half a million viewers as they saw off Jayne, Spiral and Michael and then in an effort to get viewers back up, they got Nikki back in.

It was little more than the latest attempt to recreate the bedsit. They did the same the year before with Orlaith, Eugene and Kinga, and that didn't really work. By the time they did in in BB7 it was just stupid. And by BB8, with the half way house, it was so absurd it was insulting.

I thought the Secret Garden worked really well. Makes being let in on the secret was the cherry on top entertainment wise.

And we wouldn't have lost Susie over Aisleyne. Aisleyne would have no doubt been evicted that week, she was hated at that point in the series hence her confusion from all the booing to her being in a secret house.

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I thought the Secret Garden worked really well. Makes being let in on the secret was the cherry on top entertainment wise.

And we wouldn't have lost Susie over Aisleyne. Aisleyne would have no doubt been evicted that week, she was hated at that point in the series hence her confusion from all the booing to her being in a secret house.

Then so be it. I always thought Aisleyne was overrated anyway.

[NotARylanFan]

Removing Nominations would have a massive backlash imo.

It would be viewed by the general public as a cash grabbing scheme - instead of voting between three people (or not at all if your favourite wasn't up) it becomes to you must vote every single week to save them.

[EspeonBB]

Lol they might as well. It's not as if the housemates have much influence over who's nominated anyway

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

Lol they might as well. It's not as if the housemates have much influence over who's nominated anyway

For real though. Nominations used to be my favorite time of the week because they were usually nailbiters and revealed a lot about house politics. Now I couldn't give any less of a **** because we're spending half an episode either in the DR or face to face when A) depending on who the producers want to save and how vulnerable they are, anyone who gets just two nominations will be facing eviction, and B) about half of the nominees will end up being safe as result of some convoluted twist. Like, it's at the point where you're more likely to be evicted by random chance than anything you've actually done, and isn't the whole point of nominations being able to hold others accountable for their actions? There's literally no point anymore.

[sungrass]

brilliant idea - because it would so be like a new yet the same show, which is what we need as so far C5 have turned it into a circus - It would just be great to see something different it really would.


The other thing is - there is an audience out there that want to watch a show like this, sorry to say - but me mum!! she would watch it if I could persuade her it wasnt all young chavvy people. Because the show panders to the uneducated, lets say (I know I will get slaughtered for that) it loosers viewers - the autopsy stuff etc CSI etc - all have this connecting dots pattern - the show needs to be classed up. Thats why CBB is so much more popular, the glamour, respectable people... BB is seen by nearly everyone over 50 - which is a good 80% of the UK as a programe for thick people. Its not - they need to address this - stop pandering to kids, who have no money to spend in casinos anyway (their main advertising revenue) and start making this a show for adults with a brain. We are not as thick as you think!


its 03.34 in the AM UK. Im exhausted. Im not sure if that made any sense at all...!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by sungrass

Thats why CBB is so much more popular, the glamour, respectable people...

Glamour? Respectable people?
Have you actually watched CBB? Charlotte Crosby pissing the bed, Lauren Harries being... well... Lauren Harries. Perez Hilton versus Katie Hopkins, Denise Welch being a drunken mess, everything about Frenchy, Pete Burns treatment of everyone... I could go on and on and on about how CBB can have housemates even more outrageous than the civilian show nowadays.

Originally Posted by sungrass

BB is seen by nearly everyone over 50 - which is a good 80% of the UK

I'm going to assume I'm misreading this but it sounds like you're saying 80% of the UK is over the age of 50?

Originally Posted by sungrass

stop pandering to kids, who have no money to spend in casinos anyway (their main advertising revenue)

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by sungrass

brilliant idea - because it would so be like a new yet the same show, which is what we need as so far C5 have turned it into a circus - It would just be great to see something different it really would.

You've been getting something different every year. What the show needs is a structure and given that they are trying to win viewers back, it makes no sense to completely change the show from what it once was. People coming back will want to settle back into what is familiar. All you do by radically changing the show is alienate what viewers you have left, and make returning viewers just give up on it once and for all.