[arista]

Originally Posted by smudgie

He has been officially invited, so he will get the red carpet treatment.
If it makes people feel better to protest then so be it.
As far as I can see he is carrying out what he was voted in on.

Yes around June 2017

[Brillopad]

I do find it intriguing listening to some of the pomposity on here - people with over-inflated egos and full of their own perceived superior intelligence and I ask myself why are they here. Big fish in a little pond maybe.

[smudgie]

I wonder if the petition to allow his visit will gather similar support.
Interesting to watch.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I wonder if the petition to allow his visit will gather similar support.
Interesting to watch.

Do you have a link for that?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you have a link for that?

Sorry, it was on Newsnight tonight.
Just started up today I think.

[Tom4784]

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

Sure Dezzy
Like the China Leader arriving to see Blair and the Queen.
there was some protests, but kept away from
Cars with the leaders.

All these protests Change Nothing


Business as Usual

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

Where were 'people' last year when China's President visited? In comparison to their abuses of their own nationals and their neighbors this Getting hot under the collar about Trump seems hysterical.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Where were 'people' last year when China's President visited? In comparison to their abuses of their own nationals and their neighbors this Getting hot under the collar about Trump seems hysterical.

One protest doesn't change or devalue the other. I don't get this obsession you and others seem to have suggesting that people's opinions or protests are invalid unless they are part of ALL protests.

It seems like a weak way to try to silence someone's opinion in all honesty, you should try to engage in the debate, not try to stifle it.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

One protest doesn't change or devalue the other. I don't get this obsession you and others seem to have suggesting that people's opinions or protests are invalid unless they are part of ALL protests.

It seems like a weak way to try to silence someone's opinion in all honesty, you should try to engage in the debate, not try to stifle it.

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

Then go protest them?

You could say 'there's bigger problems in the world' about literally ANYTHING and it doesn't change the fact that there's a problem in the first place. Most security experts worth their salt agree that the ban is ineffective. It's just a move to fool gullible people into believing he is doing something useful. All he has achieved is increasing the likelihood of another major terror attack in the future because this ban just gave the extremists ammunition.

No security measure that basically paints all Muslims as a threat will ever help combat terrorism.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

Completely agree. The whole thing feels like one big sulk to me especially as you say there are far greater abuses in the world, ironically many of which are committed by those they seek to protect.

These type of hysterical protests are as immature and reactionary as that of those they protest against.

[James]

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by James

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

This is a brilliant post James and very intelligently put.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by James

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

I refuse to bow down to a fascist because people voted to **** us over in the Referendum or because Trump might throw a temper tantrum and make some decisions that will be rectified as soon as he leaves the White House which is likely to be sooner rather than later.

[Jack_]

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

Good point Kaz.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

Wow inspirational.....

I wouldn't be lying if i said i've heard more intellectual chants on the terraces of football grounds

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Wow inspirational.....

I wouldn't be lying if i said i've heard more intellectual chants on the terraces of football grounds

Maybe you should both lighten up a little? Unless you're not aware of the song it's taken from idk

I happen to think exercising your democratic right to protest is highly intelligent, actually. Using the word '****' doesn't negate that, astounded that people think it does.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Maybe you should both lighten up a little? Unless you're not aware of the song it's taken from idk

I happen to think exercising your democratic right to protest is highly intelligent, actually. Using the word '****' doesn't negate that, astounded that people think it does.

Do you actually think ALL those people there know what they are protesting about? If one were asked I doubt they'de have a clue. This is just hysteria gone mad.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you actually think ALL those people there know what they are protesting about? If one were asked I doubt they'de have a clue. This is just hysteria gone mad.

Nah. If it was summer, maybe. People are FAR too lazy / cosy to go out in the winter just for the sake of it. You could maybe argue that they don't all have the best reasoning skills and don't REALLY understand all of the politics behind it, that would be a fair (almost inevitable) assumption, but I think everyone "in general" does know what it's about and why they instinctively "don't like this".

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you actually think ALL those people there know what they are protesting about? If one were asked I doubt they'de have a clue. This is just hysteria gone mad.

Do you think ALL the people who voted to leave the EU, or for Trump, or for the Tories at the last general election - knew what they were voting for?

You could apply the same supposition to almost anything, it's like delete as applicable to whatever particular cause you wish to belittle. The number of people there who know what they're protesting about is irrelevant, the very fact that people are exercising their democratic right (one that, btw, is chastised far too much for my liking in recent years - it's almost as if people have little understanding of its worth and history) is a good thing, people say the same about voting and this works in exactly the same way.

I also think the reason for this protest is getting lost in translation. It is both against him being afforded an official 'state' visit at the expense of the tax payer (as opposed to him visiting on his own terms), and the related issue of anti-racism and Islamaphobia. People seem to be forgetting that many dual nationals in Britain were and are directly affected by the policy, and Theresa May's reluctance to condemn such an abhorrent stance is a stain on Britain's image. If the Prime Minister of the US' closest neighbour can publicly criticise it, I think we're more than capable of not disappearing up the arse of Donald ****ing Trump.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

It felt more like dumbing down the issue than ensuring it was taken seriously

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It felt more like dumbing down the issue than ensuring it was taken seriously

I have to admit that's something that bug me too. Much harder to have an issue taken seriously when there are brainless mob chants going on. This of course applies to both sides with the whole Trump thing, some of the pro-Trump mobs... ... let's just say I think more than a few long-lost cousins were running into each other at those.