[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Which is why 90% of the winners are devoid of any personality or character?

I'd disagree with that.Infact most have had more character and personality than Isabelle

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I'd disagree with that.Infact most have had more character and personality than Isabelle

That's like saying "A swimming pool being deeper than a pond doesn't matter as there are shallower puddles".

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Which is why 90% of the winners are devoid of any personality or character?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Too aggressive

[Jack_]

How can people think that's not true when Sam Evans is a thing

[James]

I thought Deborah had a chance until the late Isabelle surge.

[Robodog]

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.


Thankfully, most of us agree with this.

Some people still have some catching up to do.

[lewis111]

We aren't judging people on their colour though
We are just stating a fact that a black woman has never one and probably never will - which leads to the question is it because others are judging people on their skin colour

[Mullens123]

No a black woman will never win.

All you have to do is see the way people reacted to Deborah in comparison to others this series, and how the subject of race is reacted to by individuals who themselves won't be facing racial prejudice.

[ClaireS92]

Oh please don t play the race card and this comes from someone who genuinely was a big Anti Racist Campaigner years ago so its not because i m a racist myself or would support any sh*t like that that I say this. It had absolutley nothing to do with that it had mre to do with not just her supporting Hannah's fakeness too often but I think maybe aking up fakeness herself early on too both to get extra airtme also think enough saw through the coy Im shy fake routine around Kieran which was done because she thought people would find it entertaining if she acted that way around him.No way can you be that shy if you ve had your clit pierced .

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by lewis111

We aren't judging people on their colour though
We are just stating a fact that a black woman has never one and probably never will - which leads to the question is it because others are judging people on their skin colour

1. You say 'we aren't judging people on their colour'. You then go on to say that 'a black woman has never won and probably never will'. Clearly that is a statement of judgement, based entirely on colour.

2. You then ask 'are other people (namely BB viewers) judging contestants on their skin colour?' Let's look at 2 recent examples:

Last night Deborah came 3rd out of 22 contestants. A great achievement for any housemate. The most prominent chant from the finals crowd last night was 'Deborah Deborah!' Clearly she was very popular and loved. Some may have loved her because she was black but most people loved her because of the content of her character and rightly so.

Another example is Pauline in BB15. An older black female, she received perhaps the best launch night reception i have ever seen. Launch night requires that people make snap judgements based on shallow 1st impressions of the new HMs, and Pauline's was overwhelmingly positive. So much so, that out of ALL the new HMs, it was Pauline who was voted the people's choice of 'Power Housemate'. Confirmation of the BB voting public embracing a black, older female based entirely on first impressions, and they chose her above all the other contestants. If anything it was positive discrimination. I think they loved the idea of an older black female doing well, hence all the cheers and the votes for her.

Pauline was loved, validated and made all powerful by the BB voting public. It was hers to lose. But lose it she did. Not because of her skin colour, but because of the content of her character. Everyone judged her on first impressions and they loved her. It was her character that eventually let her down from those positive first judgements.

It's pretty darn insulting to imply there is mass racism in the BB voting public especially in the face of such constant positivity. That kind of talk creates racial divide when there is none It also absolves contestants of any kind of responsibility for their actions to say 'oh you only didn't win because you were black'. How shallow.

Well the BB voters are much smarter than that. This show is a trailblazer for diversity and unique individuals. Look at the BOTS audience. Look at winners such as Luke A and Brian Belo. Look at the love for Pauline and for Deborah last night. This is the reality and it's time some people started to get on board with this positivity or they themselves run the risk of holding up any positive progress.

[johne]

I was going to post my disgust at the racism behind this thread, but there's no need, Robodog said it better, and more politely than I ever could -

"It's pretty darn insulting to imply there is mass racism in the BB voting public especially in the face of such constant positivity. That kind of talk creates racial divide when there is none It also absolves contestants of any kind of responsibility for their actions to say 'oh you only didn't win because you were black'. How shallow.

Well the BB voters are much smarter than that. This show is a trailblazer for diversity and unique individuals. Look at the BOTS audience. Look at winners such as Luke A and Brian Belo. Look at the love for Pauline and for Deborah last night. This is the reality and it's time some people started to get on board with this positivity or they themselves run the risk of holding up any positive progress."

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. You say 'we aren't judging people on their colour'. You then go on to say that 'a black woman has never won and probably never will'. Clearly that is a statement of judgement, based entirely on colour.

2. You then ask 'are other people (namely BB viewers) judging contestants on their skin colour?' Let's look at 2 recent examples:

Last night Deborah came 3rd out of 22 contestants. A great achievement for any housemate. The most prominent chant from the finals crowd last night was 'Deborah Deborah!' Clearly she was very popular and loved. Some may have loved her because she was black but most people loved her because of the content of her character and rightly so.

Another example is Pauline in BB15. An older black female, she received perhaps the best launch night reception i have ever seen. Launch night requires that people make snap judgements based on shallow 1st impressions of the new HMs, and Pauline's was overwhelmingly positive. So much so, that out of ALL the new HMs, it was Pauline who was voted the people's choice of 'Power Housemate'. Confirmation of the BB voting public embracing a black, older female based entirely on first impressions, and they chose her above all the other contestants. If anything it was positive discrimination. I think they loved the idea of an older black female doing well, hence all the cheers and the votes for her.

Pauline was loved, validated and made all powerful by the BB voting public. It was hers to lose. But lose it she did. Not because of her skin colour, but because of the content of her character. Everyone judged her on first impressions and they loved her. It was her character that eventually let her down from those positive first judgements.

It's pretty darn insulting to imply there is mass racism in the BB voting public especially in the face of such constant positivity. That kind of talk creates racial divide when there is none It also absolves contestants of any kind of responsibility for their actions to say 'oh you only didn't win because you were black'. How shallow.

Well the BB voters are much smarter than that. This show is a trailblazer for diversity and unique individuals. Look at the BOTS audience. Look at winners such as Luke A and Brian Belo. Look at the love for Pauline and for Deborah last night. This is the reality and it's time some people started to get on board with this positivity or they themselves run the risk of holding up any positive progress.

[Denver]

Sandi Bogle is coming

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Sandi Bogle is coming

but still sad

would've preferred sandra in

[snail69]

This is a boring over played topic. I say this as a mixed race man(my dad is African American). Race does not matter, if the USA can have a black president then the UK can have a black Big Brother winner. You're the one that makes all the threads about black people so in my opinion you're the only one with a problem.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist it does and I've been a victim of it before but to imply that everyone is racist says a lot about yourself and how you see the world. I feel bad for you to be honest.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Withano]

I'd imagine so, if they were the most liked housemate. Gina would have won if Dexter never made the final. Her fanbase was splitting their votes though.

[Mullens123]

You literally just have to go onto the Deborah is third or Hannah has been evicted posts on facebook to see people using racial slurs or using skin colour is a derogatory manner.

Guess its overshadowed by this constant positivity that has seen women of colour place no higher than 3rd in 17 years.

Just because a transgender individual wins Big Brother doesn't mean transphobia isn't an existing force among the general public, same as a gay person winning doesn't denounce homophobia and a woman winning doesn't imply sexism has ended. Saying these things isn't claiming that the ENTIRE public feels this way, but even if 5-10% of a viewing audience hold prejudice or bigoted views it makes a difference and creates a climate where people will struggle to win simply because of gender, race, sexuality etc.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Mullens123

You literally just have to go onto the Deborah is third or Hannah has been evicted posts on facebook to see people using racial slurs or using skin colour is a derogatory manner.

Guess its overshadowed by this constant positivity that has seen women of colour place no higher than 3rd in 17 years.

Just because a transgender individual wins Big Brother doesn't mean transphobia isn't an existing force among the general public, same as a gay person winning doesn't denounce homophobia and a woman winning doesn't imply sexism has ended. Saying these things isn't claiming that the ENTIRE public feels this way, but even if 5-10% of a viewing audience hold prejudice or bigoted views it makes a difference and creates a climate where people will struggle to win simply because of gender, race, sexuality etc.

Well you can either focus on the ever-increasing positives (of which there is PLENTY of solid evidence for in the BB world) take heart, and build upon that.

Or you can focus on the negatives (for which there is no solid evidence, just questions and implications in the minds of the accusers), feel downhearted about those questions and keep going round in circles, ignoring all that positive progress that IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

I'm sure there are individuals making stupid remarks on social media. I'm sure they always will be. I don't think it's realistic to expect to be able to silence every voice that you don't agree with. Attempting to do that runs the risk of becoming fascist yourself.

As Salman Rushdie said:

"One of the problems with defending free speech is you often have to defend people that you find to be outrageous and unpleasant and disgusting."

That's what a free, healthy society looks like. Fortunately most people are pretty awake on such issues and see the person, not the pigeon-hole. It's happening more and more. Especially on Big Brother.

But seriously, take heart, look at the overwhelming evidence to the positive regarding BB the good it does for society, embracing all manner of individuals from all backgrounds. This show celebrates it like no other. It leads the way for public awareness and acceptance for say, trans-individuals: Luke A, Lauren Harries, Kellie Malonie etc.

As for whether or why not a black female will ever win. Well it's up to those individuals isn't it? Pauline had every chance of winning but she blew it by being spiteful.

Deborah got very close to winning yesterday. She was lovely. But people also liked Raph and Isabelle. They were lovely too. Anyone who suggests the Raph/Isabelle voters were voting them out of some kind of 'unspoken racism' towards Deborah are seriously deluding themselves. Where does that get you?

The progress for anti-racism requires two things:

1. That people stop being racist
2. That people acknowledge when this is happening.

It cuts both ways.

Or we get nowhere.

[nonstop]

These stale threads

[Tom4784]

Yes but it's unlikely. There's a definite prejudice against them, Sue is a prime example of this due to how the crowd booed her before she even spoke, the only thing we knew about her was that she was a black woman and the crowd booed.

There's been a number of black female HMs that have received undue hate when they haven't really been villains either. It's quite undeniable that black female HMs have way more of a mountain to climb than most, another example of this is Debs and Hannah this series when they'd get the stereotypical 'aggressive' edit and commentary from people when they were often provoked by more aggressive people looking for a reaction.

I think it's undeniable that, at this point, if you are a black female you will typically have a harder time then you would if you were the exact same person but white.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yes but it's unlikely. There's a definite prejudice against them, Sue is a prime example of this due to how the crowd booed her before she even spoke, the only thing we knew about her was that she was a black woman and the crowd booed.

There's been a number of black female HMs that have received undue hate when they haven't really been villains either. It's quite undeniable that black female HMs have way more of a mountain to climb than most, another example of this is Debs and Hannah this series when they'd get the stereotypical 'aggressive' edit and commentary from people when they were often provoked by more aggressive people looking for a reaction.

I think it's undeniable that, at this point, if you are a black female you will typically have a harder time then you would if you were the exact same person but white.

What a load of rubbish...
Plenty of housemates get negativity when they are not necessarily unlikeable..take Raph for instance along with Tom Charlotte Ellie Kieron...none of them were bad people but they got a lot of vitriol on here.

So let's just be reasonable..

[Crimson Dynamo]

if it was BB Nigeria or anywhere there was say a 8% white population it would be the same thread but about a white winner

lets face facts

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if it was BB Nigeria or anywhere there was say a 8% white population it would be the same thread but about a white winner

lets face facts

How dare you every winner of BB Africa has been white

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How dare you every winner of BB Africa has been white