[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by ange7

"ALlah doesnt care where you pray, as long as its clean. And if buiding a mosque at a certain location would cause some people pain, it should not be done. This is why a lot of religious leaders, fail iIslam. They fail to remember that above all, its a religion of peace,. And in this case, peace would mean, to go bulid the mosque somewhere else, without causing any controversy!"
"its a religion of peace"
then why blame it by denying them the right to build a Mosque? Denying them that right is like saying "we blame you". Those that mistakenly blame 9/11 on the wider moderate Muslim population should not be proved correct by this building being stopped.
"And in this case, peace would mean, to go bulid the mosque somewhere else, without causing any controversy!"
Building a Mosque isn't controversial unless people believe there IS a link between those Muslims wanting to build it and the terrorists.

I am not saying they dont have the right. The perfectly have the right to build a mosque there, and its gonna go ahead. But knowing that there are strong opposition, it doesnt hurt to build it somewhere else.
I dont mind that they build the mosque there obviously, but I know that it will attract drama, and things are gonna go down, after its built, thats inevitable. And Islam doesnt need that, with all the anti muslims of these days, and it will go back and forth.

I know we are not all responsible for terrorists attacks, but you have to take some responsibility. Its like when your relative does something bad, it still reflects on you somehow.

Bottom line is, if they feel they absolutely have to build the mosque there, then fair enough, but I just dont think they do.

[ange7]

"Well I have made my points but you keep deflecting"
rubbish ... deflecting what? zzzzzz .... I do believe I'm hitting for 6 here. hehe
"putting a mosque so close will still get people annoyed and upset"
no it doesn't ... the majority understand that a Mosque is a place of worship ... who are you to talk for them?
"but why would they want to have it somewhere where it will upset people"
They don't. They live there and as rate payers would like a place to pray locally. You seem to think Muslims choose this spot to rub people's nose in it....as though these Muslims and the fundamentalist bombers are all the one thing. Again...that's you mate.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

"Well I have made my points but you keep deflecting"
rubbish ... deflecting what? zzzzzz .... I do believe I'm hitting for 6 here. hehe
"putting a mosque so close will still get people annoyed and upset"
no it doesn't ... the majority understand that a Mosque is a place of worship ... who are you to talk for them?
"but why would they want to have it somewhere where it will upset people"
They don't. They live there and as rate payers would like a place to pray locally. You seem to think Muslims choose this spot to rub people's nose in it....as though these Muslims and the fundamentalist bombers are all the one thing. Again...that's you mate.

Who are you to talk for them either? You seem to think you're voice of the people or something lol

And how do you know what I think? You seem to have an agenda with me that you're clearly never gonna let go.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by InOne

Who are you to talk for them either? You seem to think you're voice of the people or something lol

And how do you know what I think? You seem to have an agenda with me that you're clearly never gonna let go.

nothing post with ZERO new point ....zzzzzzzz
what "point" of yours am I "defecting".

"Who are you to talk for them either?"
Easy question.
I'm saying New Yorkers are OK with it because THEIR elected officials have given it the tumbs up. Heard of democracy? No?
That's a pretty strong point. They choose to OK it.
YOU think you can speak for New Yorkers because .... ******* knows why.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

nothing post with ZERO new point ....zzzzzzzz
what "point" of yours am I "defecting".

"Who are you to talk for them either?"
Easy question.
I'm saying New Yorkers are OK with it because THEIR elected officials have given it the tumbs up. Heard of democracy? No?
That's a pretty strong point. They choose to OK it.
YOU think you can speak for New Yorkers because .... ******* knows why.

Why is there protests if people are ok with it?

[ange7]

Originally Posted by InOne

Why is there protests if people are ok with it?

ok ... so look up democracy mate. "protesters" aren't the majority. It isn't mob rule, that could be a shock to you. I didn't say ALL new yorkers liked the Mosque. We know the majority do given their elected representatives gave it the green light. That's a fact. That's why I can safely talk about what the majority of new yorkers want and you are left swinging in the wind. Your idea that the majority find the Mosque insensitive came from thin air. Only those that directly link all mosques with the word "fundamentalists" are thinking like that and are in the minority.

[ange7]

bring some new points please ... those one's aren't working for ya.

[ange7]

"You seem to have an agenda with me that you're clearly never gonna let go. "
... just saw this ..... who are you mate? You all kind of blur into one. lol ... this sounds like "deflecting". My argument is on the table ... argue yours and don't try to make this about anything else please. Especially "it's all about me!!"

[ange7]

sorry mate ...your in the minority and the majority of New Yorkers for whom you think you speak, disagree with your intolerant views.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

sorry mate ...your in the minority and the majority of New Yorkers for whom you think you speak, disagree with your intolerant views.

Nothing intolerant about my views (=

[ange7]

lol at your post getting smaller and smaller :P
bring an argument next time please. You have a great day.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

lol at your post getting smaller and smaller :P
bring an argument next time please. You have a great day.

I have won this argument. 9 people don't speak for New York, or America.

Have a nice day too (=

[ange7]

Originally Posted by InOne

I have won this argument. 9 people don't speak for New York, or America.

Have a nice day too (=

"I have won this argument"
mahahahah!!!! your desperation is music to my ears.

9 elected reps plus the mayor do speak for New York ... again "democracy" look it up.

Horrible backward views are not in the majority since most don't make the link between "fundamentalist bombers" and "Muslims". Most get the fact that these fundamentalist had an agenda and wanted to hide it behind the veil of respectability by calling there terrible deeds "holy". They weren't the first and won't be the last. They want to incite hate against all Muslims to enlarge their ranks. Some don't get this but MOST do. We know this because the Mosque is going to be built and the majority don't want to deny honest and decent Muslims the right to pray in a mosque. Denying them that right would be like saying "no..you were to blame!!!" and that's exactly what they are NOT saying by letting the plans go ahead.

[InOne]

Double post, silly forum

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

"I have won this argument"
mahahahah!!!! your desperation is music to my ears.

9 elected reps plus the mayor do speak for New York ... again "democracy" look it up.

Horrible backward views are not in the majority since most don't make the link between "fundamentalist bombers" and "Muslims". Most get the fact that these fundamentalist had an agenda and wanted to hide it behind the veil of respectability by calling there terrible deeds "holy". They weren't the first and won't be the last. They want to incite hate against all Muslims to enlarge their ranks. Some don't get this but MOST do. We know this because the Mosque is going to be built and the majority don't want to deny honest and decent Muslims the right to pray in a mosque. Denying them that right would be like saying "no..you were to blame!!!" and that's exactly what they are NOT saying by letting the plans go ahead.

Nobody wants to incite hate against all muslims lol Obviously muslims feel bad for those people who by no fault of their associated with religion. But building a mosque there isn't really going to help prejudice views is it? Yes, they can build it wherever they want, they can pray wherever they want, just seems an odd move that is all. Almost like doing themselves no favours, and the fact it's knocking down a 150 year old building doesn't help either. They don't need a mosque there they want one there. Don't get why there needs to be so much hassle for the sake of "Cos we can". Maybe idiots like the terrorist will decide to bomb that too? Then more lives lost. Just doesn't seem the best thought out idea.

[ange7]

"But building a mosque there isn't really going to help prejudice views is it?" ... and nor will it hurt. The majority agree with that. People don't make city planning decisions based on a vocal minority's "prejudice views"
"They don't need a mosque there they want one there"
Wrong ... there is an existing Muslim community there and they have the right as Americans and tax payers to have a place to worship. Your phrase "they don't need it, they want it" was pulled from your @rse ... how could you prove that. It was degned to protray Muslims in a hateful light as though they are TRYING to rub people's face in 9/11. Again luckily this negative and hateful view is in the minority.
"Maybe idiots like the terrorist will decide to bomb that too?"
I wouldn't put that pass them. The majority of deaths in Iraq are from terrorist attacking Muslims. This isn't a reason to stop honest Muslimsin NY from being allowed a place to pray. Denying them that would be like blaming them for 9/11.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

"But building a mosque there isn't really going to help prejudice views is it?" ... and nor will it hurt. The majority agree with that. People don't make city planning decisions based on a vocal minority's "prejudice views"
"They don't need a mosque there they want one there"
Wrong ... there is an existing Muslim community there and they have the right as Americans and tax payers to have a place to worship. Your phrase "they don't need it, they want it" was pulled from your @rse ... how could you prove that. It was degned to protray Muslims in a hateful light as though they are TRYING to rub people's face in 9/11. Again luckily this negative and hateful view is in the minority.
"Maybe idiots like the terrorist will decide to bomb that too?"
I wouldn't put that pass them. The majority of deaths in Iraq are from terrorist attacking Muslims. This isn't a reason to stop honest Muslimsin NY from being allowed a place to pray. Denying them that would be like blaming them for 9/11.

Well that is the thing, if people are already protesting then it already has hurt, and you are making out like that minority is about 9 or something. There are already a good few mosques in Manhattan, so they don't really need it, they do want it. It's not like the muslim community there have to pray in the street is it? It's not about rubbing peoples faces in 9/11, I just don't see the need for it to be right then when it is upsetting people, that is all. Nobody is stopping them from having a place to pray or blaming them, it's a shame that the idiots gave a bad names to Muslims in general and make people think like that, but building it in that spot won't help matters for the muslim community at all.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well that is the thing, if people are already protesting then it already has hurt, and you are making out like that minority is about 9 or something. There are already a good few mosques in Manhattan, so they don't really need it, they do want it. It's not like the muslim community there have to pray in the street is it? It's not about rubbing peoples faces in 9/11, I just don't see the need for it to be right then when it is upsetting people, that is all. Nobody is stopping them from having a place to pray or blaming them, it's a shame that the idiots gave a bad names to Muslims in general and make people think like that, but building it in that spot won't help matters for the muslim community at all.

"There are already a good few mosques in Manhattan, so they don't really need it, they do want it"
I don't believe your know exactly how many Mosques Manhattan has nor that your an expert on there placement, nor do I think your a demographer with a specialty on the the Muslim population numbers in NY. This argument (above) works onlt if all these things are true.... otherwise your just pulling facts from the air. THEY can decide if the NEED a new Mosque.... your implication that they don't actually NEED a mosque is based on nothing. Who are you to say what they need.
"but building it in that spot won't help matters for the muslim community at all"
Their choice. And it will help matters. It's the US saying to the Muslim community "we don't blame you".

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ange7

"There are already a good few mosques in Manhattan, so they don't really need it, they do want it"
I don't believe your know exactly how many Mosques Manhattan has nor that your an expert on there placement, nor do I think your a demographer with a specialty on the the Muslim population numbers in NY. This argument (above) works onlt if all these things are true.... otherwise your just pulling facts from the air. THEY can decide if the NEED a new Mosque.... your implication that they don't actually NEED a mosque is based on nothing. Who are you to say what they need.
"but building it in that spot won't help matters for the muslim community at all"
Their choice. And it will help matters. It's the US saying to the Muslim community "we don't blame you".

Think on a news report I saw it said 9 not 100% on that, but not pulling facts from nowhere. Well may or may not help matters, who knows. But we won't really agree on anything here, so we'll have to see what happens lol

[ange7]

Originally Posted by InOne

Think on a news report I saw it said 9 not 100% on that, but not pulling facts from nowhere. Well may or may not help matters, who knows. But we won't really agree on anything here, so we'll have to see what happens lol

lol fine ... it's midnight here :P

[Vicky.]

Also, if this goes ahead, it is going to be ridiculously unsafe unless they have 24 hour security on the place.

I can imagine the mosque being under constant threat of attack. Why would people want to pray somewhere where some psycho might come in and blow them all away for the sake of a few extremeists? Seriously. I know I wouldnt knowingly go somewhere where I knew there was a chance of that happening.

[rick-roll]

InOne, your argument against ange7 keeps falling flat on its face.


Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database


I honestly think think that this has less to do with a muslim community centre being built near ground zero and more to do with a small group of people who believe that muslims are building on 'sacred' ground just to spit in the face America. If people are so upset about this, do people have a problem with the shinto shrine near pearl harbour? What about this: In 1070 Pope Alexander II ordered the Normans to do penance for killing so many people during their conquest of England. So William the Conqueror vowed to build an abbey where the Battle of Hastings had taken place, with the high altar of its church on the supposed spot where King Harold fell in that battle on Saturday, 14 October 1066.

The point is, this is being made a big deal because the extremists claimed to be muslim so 1.5 billion muslims are being tarnished with the same brush. If they happened to be christian, religion would not even come into play, their nationality would.

[InOne]

No it isn't. And why are you posting that about the % of terrorist attacks? What has that got to do with anything?

[rick-roll]

Originally Posted by InOne

No it isn't. And why are you posting that about the % of terrorist attacks? What has that got to do with anything?

It's obvious that a lot of people don't just have a problem with the ground zero issue but with islam itself. To think that muslims are a threat or that this mosque is an offensive attack is asinine. It is not being built on or near sacred/holy ground and doesn't intend to represent hatred or violence. It's a muslim community centre ffs. The pie chart was just an example of how America prioritize their focus on the wrong things.

Protest against muslims because the extremists were muslims. Invade Iraq because the extremists were Iraqis....oh wait a minute, they were Saudis. A nation that shares a special relationship (and oil supply) with the US.

The whole thing is just fear-mongering and ignorance spurred on by right-wing extremist groups and idiots who can't think for themselves.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by rick-roll

It's obvious that a lot of people don't just have a problem with the ground zero issue but with islam itself. To think that muslims are a threat or that this mosque is an offensive attack is asinine. It is not being built on or near sacred/holy ground and doesn't intend to represent hatred or violence. It's a muslim community centre ffs. The pie chart was just an example of how America prioritize their focus on the wrong things.

Protest against muslims because the extremists were muslims. Invade Iraq because the extremists were Iraqis....oh wait a minute, they were Saudis. A nation that shares a special relationship (and oil supply) with the US.

The whole thing is just fear-mongering and ignorance spurred on by right-wing extremist groups and idiots who can't think for themselves.

Well you've already seen my views on the matter. But will be interesting to see how the whole thing pans out.