[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Proof that they controlled her home life?
They didn't 'seize' her passport. They keep all the royals passports for security reasons, which they obviously released for all those trips and holidays.

And I would like you to acknowledge this reply to the accusations you threw at me about mental health instead of ignoring it....

....and Dezzy, you are making a lot of assumptions there....show me a post where I said I doubted her mental health issues - even if I did, I wouldn't say so. I HAVE doubted very much that she was refused help, said so, and still do.
So get your facts right before you start lecturing people on things they haven't said.

More strawman arguments.

If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.

You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Its also dangerous and vile if its untrue. Its extremely hard to believe that with Harry's struggle with Mental Health since his mother died...his connections with Mental Health organisations that HE couldnt get her the help she needed. Do you really believe that Harry told her to go and ask HR to get her help and just accepted they couldnt help her because it wouldnt reflect well on the family....you think Harry just sat back and let that happen.

He didn't sit back and let it happen, he took drastic action to remove his family from the situation by giving up everything he has ever known. Did you miss that part somehow?

It is fairly evident to me from their demeanor and the way they talk about things that they have had significant counselling since leaving The UK.

So they absolutely did take action. By leaving.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More strawman arguments.



If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.



You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He didn't sit back and let it happen, he took drastic action to remove his family from the situation by giving up everything he has ever known. Did you miss that part somehow?

It is fairly evident to me from their demeanor and the way they talk about things that they have had significant counselling since leaving The UK.

So they absolutely did take action. By leaving.

But they weren't meant to do that! How dare they leave our sphere of influence where we can't berate them and they have to stand there at take it for our own amusement!

The press and the public were happy to pile on her all the hatred they could muster, and now they hate her for peacing out and daring to find their own path on their own terms.

It's an abusive situation, really. The UK abused Meghan Markle and continue to do so.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well this changes EVERYTHING.

no need for the sarcasm, I was always under the impression it was Harry and Meghan invited the choir

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

People are really blinded by their overwhelming confirmation bias. Like, these royal commentators were totally revealed to be full of **** and talking out of their arse regarding an interview they hadn't seen, but because they have negative views on Meghan Markle, her haters just ignore the facts and treat them like bastions of truth because these 'commentators' are telling them what they want to hear.

I could never tolerate that, I don't know how her haters could. I'd rather embrace reality.

Perfect


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[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

'One rule for thee, another for me.' Basically.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by jet

Harry said he was too ashamed to ask for help for Meghan.

Unbelievable....despite his support with Mental Health associations and telling people to speak out...he couldnt even do it for his wife?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More strawman arguments.

If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.

You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

I have never said I disbelieved her about the struggles she spoke of in Africa. I have always said it was the wrong time and place to bring them up. You can strawman and strawman until the cows come home in every post but what you won't do is admit you were wrong.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by jet

I have never said I disbelieved her about the struggles she spoke of in Africa. I have always said it was the wrong time and place to bring them up. You can strawman and strawman until the cows come home in every post but what you won't do is admit you were wrong.

You undermine everything she says and does. I see how you didn’t respond to that bit of Dezzys post.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

I think that would be because the royals need careful security protection and Jimmy who works in the chippy doesn't?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He didn't sit back and let it happen, he took drastic action to remove his family from the situation by giving up everything he has ever known. Did you miss that part somehow?

It is fairly evident to me from their demeanor and the way they talk about things that they have had significant counselling since leaving The UK.

So they absolutely did take action. By leaving.

Not when she said she was suicidal though, he was too ashamed to do anything....and didn't you say he had wanted to get out of there for years?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

I think that would be because the royals need careful security protection and Jimmy who works in the chippy doesn't?

The reasons for it are irrelevant when discussion whether or not it has an impact on someone perception of their own freedom; I assume there are valid security reasons for it but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel trapping, and that someone who has realised that they feel trapped by it might want to leave.

But I know the stock response to this is, "Well she should have realised what she was getting into/Harry should have done a better job of explaining it to her" but that's "captain hindsight" stuff and it's not "immoral" to get into situations that you find yourself hating because of getting carried away in the excitement/lack of information. Nor is it immoral to then want to leave that situation.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He didn't sit back and let it happen, he took drastic action to remove his family from the situation by giving up everything he has ever known. Did you miss that part somehow?

It is fairly evident to me from their demeanor and the way they talk about things that they have had significant counselling since leaving The UK.

So they absolutely did take action. By leaving.

That was their 'solution' eventually.
Meghan said in the interview she told Harry about her suicidal thoughts because if she didnt say it ..she would do it. That same night she forced herself to go to the Theatre with Harry on a Royal appointment...she went because if she had stayed at home by herself she didnt trust what she might do...everytime the lights went down she cried.
If that was my wife I wouldnt wait 6 months to do something about it...if she was on the verge of 'doing something' AND she was heavily pregnant (bearing in mind her mental health was also threatening the life of my unborn child) I would be on the case IMMEDIATLY...instead of being embarrassed to say anything.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

Not when she said she was suicidal though, he was too ashamed to do anything....and didn't you say he had wanted to get out of there for years?

I'm not really going to gloss over that part; he did admit that he didn't do all he could immediately because of feeling ashamed but that's all part of the issue and the culture, isn't it. It seems he knows he could have done more and is owning that - otherwise he wouldn't have said it. You claim the interview was 100% cultivated and preened to be nothing but positive for them so why would that be in there is he wasn't admitting that he wishes he had done more earlier? He's essentially being apologetic about it in the interview and brings it up as part of explaining that there was a later point when he realised how bad things had gotten, and had to get them out of the situation. Why take his admission thst he coils and should have done more and use it as a criticism? It's information that he's offering freely and already criticising in himself.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You undermine everything she says and does. I see how you didn’t respond to that bit of Dezzys post.

Pot Kettle Black...on both accounts.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reasons for it are irrelevant when discussion whether or not it has an impact on someone perception of their own freedom; I assume there are valid security reasons for it but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel trapping, and that someone who has realised that they feel trapped by it might want to leave.

But I know the stock response to this is, "Well she should have realised what she was getting into/Harry should have done a better job of explaining it to her" but that's "captain hindsight" stuff and it's not "immoral" to get into situations that you find yourself hating because of getting carried away in the excitement/lack of information. Nor is it immoral to then want to leave that situation.

No, not my response. I don't need to scrape the barrel for reasons to justify what I've said about this 'I was trapped' nonsense. I'll leave the barrel scraping to others.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

If that was my wife I wouldnt wait 6 months to do something about it...if she was on the verge of 'doing something' AND she was heavily pregnant (bearing in mind her mental health was also threatening the life of my unborn child) I would be on the case IMMEDIATLY...instead of being embarrassed to say anything.

You can't say what you would do in that situation unless you have been in that situation, and even then you can only say what you would do because you are not that person nor have you had that person's life. You're building yourself an imaginary high-horse.

If I had to hazard a guess, if Harry could see history repeating itself and with Diana/Meghan comparisons, he may well have been in a state of anxiety/denial about it and putting energy into pretending it wasn't happening. I mean judge him for that if you want, but I personally wouldn't.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

No, not my response. I don't need to scrape the barrel for reasons to justify what I've said about this 'I was trapped' nonsense. I'll leave the barrel scraping to others.

You mean if you scrape the barrel any further you'll start a tunnel to Australia, jet.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not really going to gloss over that part; he did admit that he didn't do all he could immediately because of feeling ashamed but that's all part of the issue and the culture, isn't it. It seems he knows he could have done more and is owning that - otherwise he wouldn't have said it. You claim the interview was 100% cultivated and preened to be nothing but positive for them so why would that be in there is he wasn't admitting that he wishes he had done more earlier? He's essentially being apologetic about it in the interview and brings it up as part of explaining that there was a later point when he realised how bad things had gotten, and had to get them out of the situation. Why take his admission thst he coils and should have done more and use it as a criticism? It's information that he's offering freely and already criticising in himself.

Doesnt that all seem a bit bizarre behaviour from someone who has made speeches in support of Mental Health and said how important it is to reach out and not be ashamed....

[AnnieK]

I can totally get the feeling of being trapped when you lose control of your life as you knew it. Over this last 12 months I have felt trapped. I'm in my own house, with my son, access to everything I need in regards to hone comforts. But I can't go to see my friends when I want, I can't nip out for a meal, I can't see family members, I can't go on holiday when I want. Now, I'm doing all that because the Government told me too, for health reasons. I know its the right thing to do.....but I have moaned about it constantly I'm bored, I feel trapped even though I know its for the right reasons and will end but doesn't stop me feeling at times like a caged animal. I don't understand why its hard to believe that someone feels trapped when their life takes a massive change of direction.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not really going to gloss over that part; he did admit that he didn't do all he could immediately because of feeling ashamed but that's all part of the issue and the culture, isn't it. It seems he knows he could have done more and is owning that - otherwise he wouldn't have said it. You claim the interview was 100% cultivated and preened to be nothing but positive for them so why would that be in there is he wasn't admitting that he wishes he had done more earlier? He's essentially being apologetic about it in the interview and brings it up as part of explaining that there was a later point when he realised how bad things had gotten, and had to get them out of the situation. Why take his admission thst he coils and should have done more and use it as a criticism? It's information that he's offering freely and already criticising in himself.

Meghan was 100% cultivated and preened, Harry didn't quite follow the script.
He's emotional and spontaneous, Meghan is very much not.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You can't say what you would do in that situation unless you have been in that situation, and even then you can only say what you would do because you are not that person nor have you had that person's life. You're building yourself an imaginary high-horse.

If I had to hazard a guess, if Harry could see history repeating itself and with Diana/Meghan comparisons, he may well have been in a state of anxiety/denial about it and putting energy into pretending it wasn't happening. I mean judge him for that if you want, but I personally wouldn't.

Excellent


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[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Doesnt that all seem a bit bizarre behaviour from someone who has made speeches in support of Mental Health and said how important it is to reach out and not be ashamed....

It just shows how hard to do it is when you are ACTUALLY in the situation to me. We all know how things should be done, doesn't mean you would definitely do it when you're in that situation. For example, I have taken loads of first aid courses over the years and when I was a nanny had to do a fairly intensive paediatric one. However when my son was 2 he choked on a piece of bread, I'm talking properly choking in a restaurant. I knew I had to get that piece of food dislodged, I even knew the best way to do it....but I froze. Only momentarily and a lady at another table stepped up. I had all the knowledge but in the moment I didn't do what I should have done. That's just being human and flawed.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Pot Kettle Black...on both accounts.

Who have I undermined?