[Ninastar]

I'm going to reply properly now, because childrens toys and 'wrong labelling' is something I'm pretty interested in.

I get that some people take offense to toys being named after certain genders.

But seriously, in this day in age, especially in the UK and other parts of Europe, it is not ANYTHING like what you hear social justice bloggers complaining about.

Schools and nurseries arent even allowed to tell children what toys to play with. I don't understand how it is wrong to say 'girls toys' or 'boys toys' when it is clear what toys are being spoken about.

I understand that some boys are going to play with barbies and some girls will play with monster trucks, ETC... but the truth is, the majority of children still play with toys, related to their gender.

Of all the schools I've been to, of all the nurseries I've worked in, I've rarely ever seen kids playing with toys of the 'opposite' gender. Most kids just like playing with toy animals, bricks/lego, dressing up and playing outside.

It is seriously not as bad as people make on.

Never have I once year a parent say, 'Oh no Timothy, you cant play with that! It's a girls toy!!!!"

Once we had a little boy wear a dress-up dress outside to his parents and his dad laughed and said he looked beautiful.

SJBs seem to have this problem with making the world so much worse than it is... I just don't get it.

It does not make me small-minded to think that toys can still be called 'girls toys' or 'boys toys'. To me, being small-minded is not accepting that other people have opinions too.

[Tom4784]

I don't think the labelling of toys is a big deal, I had loads of Action Man figures as a kid and I remember one time taking one of my sister's Barbies and using some of my old Action Man clothes to turn her into an Action Woman and no one batted an eyelid at me essentially playing with a Barbie. In fact my dad, who is as masculine as you can be without wrestling a bear and is a bit of a casual homophobe, liked the fact that I was using my imagination.

I don't think it's a real concern, girls who play with barbies aren't always going to grow up to be typically girly girls and boys that play with army toys and such won't always grow up to a typical man's man. The choice of toys as a child won't change who the child will become. It's just a case of being painfully oversensitive.

[Shaun]

i had hot wheels, power rangers & thunderbirds and i grew up to be a total lad's lad

[Ninastar]

tbh i blame my love for polly pockets and barbie dolls for making me ghey

[Jack_]

@ Ninastar's other post, the reason the kids are generally playing with the toys that have been assigned to their gender is because they've been socialised that way. That's the very point, by having 'girls toys' and 'boys toys' whether people like or not that then is seen as the norm and so children will just gravitate to those toys because that's what they feel is right to them

Girls don't pop out the vag searching for dolls houses and boys aren't eager to play with toy cars, this behaviour has to be taught. It isn't natural, it's socialisation

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Jack_

@ Ninastar's other post, the reason the kids are generally playing with the toys that have been assigned to their gender is because they've been socialised that way. That's the very point, by having 'girls toys' and 'boys toys' whether people like or not that then is seen as the norm and so children will just gravitate to those toys because that's what they feel is right to them

Girls don't pop out the vag searching for dolls houses and boys aren't eager to play with toy cars, this behaviour has to be taught. It isn't natural, it's socialisation

But if they are happy then what is the big deal?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

But if they are happy then what is the big deal?

Nothing? I don't get what you're trying to say? Yes if kids are happy playing with the toys that have been assigned to their gender then that's great, but there will be some whom don't wish to play with those toys and because of the gender labelling that exists there's a risk that those children will be outcasted and seen as 'weird' because they wish to play with a toy which doesn't conform with their gender and that's both stupid and appalling. The fact that toys are labelled by gender is what creates that problem in the first place, if you just create toys and stick them in a massive toy shop and don't divide them up into genders for absolutely no reason at all (like I said I can't actually think of one good logical reason for doing so, it's such a pointless yet damaging procedure) and therefore teach kids that toys are just objects and you can play with what you want, then any potential issues that I brought up in this thread are removed. What's wrong with that?

[Jessica.]

You can't say backward people don't still exist though. I posted this on facebook recently.

omg edited the wrong post i fail

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Likewise! Good to see you posting more recently, I've been fighting a lone battle on these issues for a while now

Well Munchkins helps but she's rarely online

Rofl well I'll help when I can! I honestly think gender is such a stupid thing I mean gender roles are just so constraining. It's silly.

Originally Posted by Jessica‪

You can't say backward people don't still exist though. I posted this on facebook recently.

Some people

[lily.]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school.
I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by L

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school.
I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.

You don't even go here, **** off.

[Jessica.]

SHE DOESN'T EVEN GO HERe

[lily.]

I live here.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by L

I live here.

[GypsyGoth]

Forcing people to not recognize gender sounds intolerant. There are difference between boys and girls, deal with it. Imaging that the differences will go away if we live in some gender neutral world won't happen. What's next, sending kids to some gender neutral re-education camp? And what's after that, how about banning our hormones?

I'm not sure that it'll be a utopia at all, plus these toy stores would be a complete mess, toys of all sorts stacked together, sounds like a shopping nightmare.

[Jack_]

Way to over-exaggerate issues that aren't even there, the hyperbole wasn't really necessary

There are no natural personality differences other than biological ones between male and females, gender is a socially constructed concept. Deal with it.

Toys can be categorised by purpose, action/soft toys/dress up/cars/dolls, just like books are categorised into genres like romance/horror/thriller etc you don't need to separate them into gender specific categories so no it wouldn't be a 'shopping nightmare' it would be a shop without a girls and boys section, wow how will the world cope?!?!

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Way to over-exaggerate issues that aren't even there, the hyperbole wasn't really necessary

There are no natural personality differences other than biological ones between male and females, gender is a socially constructed concept. Deal with it.

Toys can be categorised by purpose, action/soft toys/dress up/cars/dolls, just like books are categorised into genres like romance/horror/thriller etc you don't need to separate them into gender specific categories so no it wouldn't be a 'shopping nightmare' it would be a shop without a girls and boys section, wow how will the world cope?!?!

kinda ironic given the whole argument

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

kinda ironic given the whole argument

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

kinda ironic given the whole argument

Except the issues I raised are there, so...not really

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Way to over-exaggerate issues that aren't even there, the hyperbole wasn't really necessary

There are no natural personality differences other than biological ones between male and females, gender is a socially constructed concept. Deal with it.

Toys can be categorised by purpose, action/soft toys/dress up/cars/dolls, just like books are categorised into genres like romance/horror/thriller etc you don't need to separate them into gender specific categories so no it wouldn't be a 'shopping nightmare' it would be a shop without a girls and boys section, wow how will the world cope?!?!

"gender is a socially constructed concept. Deal with it."

I am, I can deal with the world the way it is. You're the one who is "fighting a lone battle on these issues".

And if you believe that books aren't marketed to boys or girls then you haven't been in a bookstore or are totally naive.

And having all the dolls together is what's done in toy stores already, so what you want is to have all the dolls together, but if someone calls it a section for girls toys, they get fined or kicked out of your gender neutral world?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

"gender is a socially constructed concept. Deal with it."

I am, I can deal with the world the way it is. You're the one who is "fighting a lone battle on these issues".

And if you believe that books aren't marketed to boys or girls then you haven't been in a bookstore or are totally naive.

And having all the dolls together is what's done in toy stores already, so what you want is to have all the dolls together, but if someone calls it a section for girls toys, they get fined or kicked out of your gender neutral world?

Yes you can deal with the world the way it is because it doesn't affect your wonderful liberated life, how lovely of you. These issues don't affect me personally, female inequality doesn't affect me, gay rights inequality doesn't affect me, a lot of economic inequality doesn't affect me...but they're all still issues which I care about, funnily enough I don't just think because the world is fine and dandy for me that I should forget about everyone else that faces injustice and inequality

I never said that either, I was using an example of how books are categorised into genres so you could have a similar process for toys

And why are you making up bizarre policies and hysterically putting words into my mouth? Why does a section of dolls need to be for girls - I actually don't understand that. What is it about a doll that means a girl should play with it? Do girls emerge from the womb desperate to play with Barbies or something? I didn't know that was part of our natural psych to be automatically attracted to plastic objects that look a certain way, I've been so mistaken all these years

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yes you can deal with the world the way it is because it doesn't affect your wonderful liberated life, how lovely of you. These issues don't affect me personally, female inequality doesn't affect me, gay rights inequality doesn't affect me, a lot of economic inequality doesn't affect me...but they're all still issues which I care about, funnily enough I don't just think because the world is fine and dandy for me that I should forget about everyone else that faces injustice and inequality

I never said that either, I was using an example of how books are categorised into genres so you could have a similar process for toys

And why are you making up bizarre policies Why does a section of dolls need to be for girls - I actually don't understand that. What is it about a doll that means a girl should play with it? Do girls emerge from the womb desperate to play with Barbies or something? I didn't know that was part of our natural psych to be automatically attracted to plastic objects that look a certain way, I've been so mistaken all these years

Do people with these new made up genders really face injustice and inequality?

And I fail to see the issue of toys being called girls toys and boys toys. And if you don't have any bizarre policies against them, then why not leave it the way it is.

Have you looked into the effects of a gender neutral world on kids? Are you just guessing that it would be a better place for you to live?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Do people with these new made up genders really face injustice and inequality?

And I fail to see the issue of toys being called girls toys and boys toys. And if you don't have any bizarre policies against them, then why not leave it the way it is.

Have you looked into the effects of a gender neutral world on kids? Are you just guessing that it would be a better place for you to live?

Hm let's see

- Overwhelming ridicule and rejection (case in point: this thread) from people who refuse to understand or listen to how they feel
- The fact that in most places they can't be legally recognised by what they define themselves as
- A perpetuation of the agonising self-doubt/hate and confusion that they already face as a result of numerous things that have been mentioned in this thread

I've already explained the issues, do I really need to go over this again?

Separating toys into genders socialises children into believing that they are naturally supposed to play with certain bits of plastic because that's what they've been taught to, meaning that there's a risk that any child who deters from that and wishes to play with a toy that hasn't been assigned to their gender could face being isolated, rejected and seen as weird for deviating from what's 'normal'.

Not only that, but the gender roles and stereotypes that are encoded within these gender specific toys are appalling. Teaching boys that they need to 'be a man' and 'man up' by playing with action figurines and cars, that they need to be strong, authoritative because that's what being a man is all about. Teaching girls that they need to play with Barbies and miniature kitchens because a girls appearance is very important and you must make yourself look perfect in order to impress the boys and you need to learn your place which is in the home. It just perpetuates these age old stereotypes which need to be eradicated

I see no actual reason for them to be labelled as boys and girls toys, there's no downsides to those labels being removed whatsoever yet there's no clear benefits for them existing, so why do they need to? What's the issue if we stop doing it? It's not about a 'gender neutral utopia' at all that's a wild exaggeration on your part, it's simply letting kids play with whatever bits of plastic they wish not because they've been socialised into thinking they have to play with this because that's the ~natural thing to do as if you emerge from the womb having any idea about toys anyway.

I actually can't believe that some people seemingly think that toy selection is natural and can't seem to understand that everything about it is socialisation, we are near-empty blank slates when we're born you know, we're born into a world of codes and messages and stereotypes which we are taught and that shapes the people we become. You aren't born liking Barbie, Big Brother and onesies

[Jack_]

One thing I will never understand about all of this is why some people care so much about an issue that doesn't affect them in the slightest

I realise I'm saying this as a person who has no experience or contact with any transgender person which is somewhat hypocritical but I've been fascinated by gender for a while now so I have reason to take an interest in it. But for those people who it doesn't affect, they have no experience of and they don't understand...I genuinely don't get why you care so much? Things like allowing the legal recognition of genders outside of the binary is not going to have any effect on your life, so why do you care? Most of the issues effect transgenders and any kind of liberation they're searching for is going to have very little impact on your lives so you caring seems pretty pointless to me. Some of these social justice people seem a little bizarre admittedly but well...don't search for it then? I'd get pissed off if I read a load of white nationalist stuff which I've come across on Twitter before...so...I don't look for it. Are you all just trying to rile yourselves up or something?

You don't have to understand it, but if it doesn't have an impact on your lives in any profound way what's there to care about? All that's going to happen is some people are going to feel accepted and liberated meanwhile your life continues as normal, what's wrong with that?

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Jack_

One thing I will never understand about all of this is why some people care so much about an issue that doesn't affect them in the slightest

I realise I'm saying this as a person who has no experience or contact with any transgender person which is somewhat hypocritical but I've been fascinated by gender for a while now so I have reason to take an interest in it. But for those people who it doesn't affect, they have no experience of and they don't understand...I genuinely don't get why you care so much? Things like allowing the legal recognition of genders outside of the binary is not going to have any effect on your life, so why do you care? Most of the issues effect transgenders and any kind of liberation they're searching for is going to have very little impact on your lives so you caring seems pretty pointless to me. Some of these social justice people seem a little bizarre admittedly but well...don't search for it then? I'd get pissed off if I read a load of white nationalist stuff which I've come across on Twitter before...so...I don't look for it. Are you all just trying to rile yourselves up or something?

You don't have to understand it, but if it doesn't have an impact on your lives in any profound way what's there to care about? All that's going to happen is some people are going to feel accepted and liberated meanwhile your life continues as normal, what's wrong with that?

A-FUCKING-MEN.