[divergent]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

so, the lib dems have suspended one of their MPs for justifying gaza's actions, yet David Cameron (rather than calling for ceasefire) "has urged Israel to "exercise restraint" in its military operations" and strongly believes in "self-defence" for Israel

**** off Cameron

[the truth]

Originally Posted by divergent

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

so, the lib dems have suspended one of their MPs for justifying gaza's actions, yet David Cameron (rather than calling for ceasefire) "has urged Israel to "exercise restraint" in its military operations" and strongly believes in "self-defence" for Israel

**** off Cameron

cameron is a spineless jellyfish with no heart

[arista]

From Ch4HD News Live

166 Killed children
695 Killed Adults


Thats so sad

[Iceman]

Im protesting here in Dublin on Friday...will it help...most likely not but what have I got to lose

[arista]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Im protesting here in Dublin on Friday...will it help...most likely not but what have I got to lose

good on you

[Kizzy]

The United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) has agreed to launch an international inquiry into violations that may have been committed during Israel's latest military offensive in Gaza.

Navi Pillay, the UN high commissioner for human rights, warned earlier that Israel may have committed war crimes in its offensive against Hamas in the Gaza Strip, where hundreds of Palestinian civilians have been killed in the past two weeks.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/20...-crimes-israel

[arista]

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

It aint gonna end while Hamas is involved,No chance.Israelis are'nt gonna cut a deal with terrorists or while rockets are being fired at them.They're just gonna keep retaliating then Hamas will do the same.Vicious circle.They need a cease fire and some proper representatives on the Palestinian side.Hamas are terrorists,Firing rockets from hospitals and schools and using what are supposed to be their own people as human sheilds are not the actions of a legitimate group.Israelis are'nt faultless either but they atleast have something resembling a government who can be reasoned with.

So we keep hearing but that's a bit simplistic. Those on the ground in Gaza have a very different perception of Hamas and their use of apparent human shields, and what should be remembered is that Gaza is one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world, far more so than London or New York I believe, and yet we should blame it on Hamas when Israel's indiscriminate strikes inevitably kill many civilians? Plus there's also the fact it's blocked in by closed borders and Israel still have their naval blockade in place, its incredibly difficult for anyone to leave even if they wanted to. The two 'sides' shouldn't even be compared or equated really considering how grossly imbalanced the conflict is, and considering that Gazans have been treated like sh*t by Israel for years and years. Hamas may be a monster but its one that Israel created.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

So we keep hearing but that's a bit simplistic. Those on the ground in Gaza have a very different perception of Hamas and their use of apparent human shields, and what should be remembered is that Gaza is one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world, far more so than London or New York I believe, and yet we should blame it on Hamas when Israel's indiscriminate strikes inevitably kill many civilians? Plus there's also the fact it's blocked in by closed borders and Israel still have their naval blockade in place, its incredibly difficult for anyone to leave even if they wanted to. The two 'sides' shouldn't even be compared or equated really considering how grossly imbalanced the conflict is, and considering that Gazans have been treated like sh*t by Israel for years and years. Hamas may be a monster but its one that Israel created.

how can you blame israel then when they try to strike the terrorists and there are civilian deaths. when you yourself just said that gaza is so densely populated? so they have no right to strike back just because hamas hides in densely populated areas? so what do you expect them to do to respond then? these people are uneducated murderous religious psychos. they must be delt with.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

how can you blame israel then when they try to strike the terrorists and there are civilian deaths. when you yourself just said that gaza is so densely populated? so they have no right to strike back just because hamas hides in densely populated areas? so what do you expect them to do to respond then? these people are uneducated murderous religious psychos. they must be delt with.

Gaza is densely populated because Israel has penned civilians in there with next to no way of escape. 1.8m forced into a tiny area, the borders to which are closed both north and south, there's a naval blockade in place to the west, the civilians live miserable lives in miserable conditions which are dictated by Israel, they have no consistent access to electricity or water, there's severe food shortages, their civilians are constantly in fear of persecution at the hands of Israel with Western backing. And people wonder why Hamas get so much support?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Gaza is densely populated because Israel has penned civilians in there with next to no way of escape. 1.8m forced into a tiny area, the borders to which are closed both north and south, there's a naval blockade in place to the west, the civilians live miserable lives in miserable conditions which are dictated by Israel, they have no consistent access to electricity or water, there's severe food shortages, their civilians are constantly in fear of persecution at the hands of Israel with Western backing. And people wonder why Hamas get so much support?

well i believe in a 1 state solution. i believe Israel should not be a jewish state, should be a federal secular state and include all palestinians in this new state. but palestinians will not accept that. and i believe palestinians should have a "right to return" just like jews in israel, but jews will not accept that.

[the truth]

the jews are ultimately more in the wrong here. they stole a country, they continue to steal land to isolate to segregate millions....they even block their supplies and bomb them to smithereens. their response to the hammas pea shooters is massive bombs. totally disproportionate totally illegal totally immoral and utterly contemptuous of the safety of 1000s of innocents. the country should never have been set up in the 1940s they have no right to be there in the first place

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well i believe in a 1 state solution. i believe Israel should not be a jewish state, should be a federal secular state and include all palestinians in this new state. but palestinians will not accept that. and i believe palestinians should have a "right to return" just like jews in israel, but jews will not accept that.

I have to agree with this. The thing that strikes me most when I'm in Israel - which is the same thing that's struck me when I've been in Palestine - is a profound disrespect of each other's religions. What I've also learned is that young people think very differently from those in power right now. If there's hope for a settlement between Israel and Palestine, it will come from the young generation. Sadly that's not going to happen tomorrow. But it will happen, I'm convinced of it.

[the truth]

sadly not with netenyahu is charge.

[arista]

today a UN school hit


Israel killing a baby, yet again.



Ref: Ch5HD News and SkyNewsHD

[Kizzy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...a7db9d41386d41

[lostalex]

terrorists hide behind children, and some people still don't blame the terrorists when children die as human shields. amazing. don't be so naive.


If people put even half as much effort into hating the terrorists as much as they do hating Israel, this war would already be over.

It's the people making excuses for Hamas and their repulsive tactics that keep this going, it just fuels Hamas and makes them think they are winning over the "hearts and minds" of westerners.

Everytime a palestinian child dies Hamas celebrates, because they know it helps them win the propaganda war. Hamas loves pictures of dead children. What does that tell you about them? They celebrate dead children while we mourn. That should tell you everything you need to know about Hamas.

[arista]

Yes Alex
But UN buildings should not be hit



4 UN sites over 4 days

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

terrorists hide behind children, and some people still don't blame the terrorists when children die as human shields. amazing. don't be so naive.


If people put even half as much effort into hating the terrorists as much as they do hating Israel, this war would already be over.

It's the people making excuses for Hamas and their repulsive tactics that keep this going, it just fuels Hamas and makes them think they are winning over the "hearts and minds" of westerners.

Everytime a palestinian child dies Hamas celebrates, because they know it helps them win the propaganda war. Hamas loves pictures of dead children. What does that tell you about them? They celebrate dead children while we mourn. That should tell you everything you need to know about Hamas.

Israel are the real terrorists and the west is supplying the weapons

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Alex
But UN buildings should not be hit



4 UN sites over 4 days

Hamas knows how to win over "the hearts and minds" dude. don't you SEE that's part of their tactics? when you as Israel know they are gathering to plan rocket attacks at a UN building, what do you do? Isreal tries to send out warnings, they even specifically tell people where they are going to strike many times, Hamas is using places like hospitals, schools, mosques, UN buildings, journalists, as human shields, it's well known by now. how do you not know it? Do you just say, okay, we know there are 3 or 4 important leaders gathering at this place, but there are civilians, so we'll just let them carry on with their business?? What would YOU do if it was your job to protect and defend the Israeli people?

(and don't give me any bull**** about how Jews shouldn't be there to begin with, it's too late for that argument.)

[arista]

15 public dead at a UN building

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Hamas knows how to win over "the hearts and minds" dude. don't you SEE that's part of their tactics? when you as Israel know they are gathering to plan rocket attacks at a UN building, what do you do? Isreal tries to send out warnings, they even specifically tell people where they are going to strike many times, Hamas is using places like hospitals, schools, mosques, UN buildings, journalists, as human shields, it's well known by now. how do you not know it? Do you just say, okay, we know there are 3 or 4 important leaders gathering at this place, but there are civilians, so we'll just let them carry on with their business?? What would YOU do if it was your job to protect and defend the Israeli people?

(and don't give me any bull**** about how Jews shouldn't be there to begin with, it's too late for that argument.)

What in your view would you like to see happen in this conflict ? Would you prefer Israel increased its attacks until all the Hamas terrorists were killed.

That would leave the population of Gaza around 0

So that would equate to around 1.8 M dead people but looking on the brightside no more rockets.

Job done....??




.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

What in your view would you like to see happen in this conflict ? Would you prefer Israel increased its attacks until all the Hamas terrorists were killed.

That would leave the population of Gaza around 0

So that would equate to around 1.8 M dead people but looking on the brightside no more rockets.

Job done....??




.

So you suggest that any country in the world would sit by and do nothing while it's neighbour fired rockets at it every day?It's the governments main job to defend its people.If france started firing rockets over the Channel would you expect Cameron to just do absolutely nothing?He would be overthrown very quickly.Hamas won't stop firing these rockets and they love it when Palestinian civilians are killed.They select the locations they do to create as many deaths as possible.Nothing can change while Hamas have any influence at all in that country.Britain or any other country would do the same as Israel are doing.They would destroy any sites where weapons are being stored and fired from to disable the agressive countries military capabilities.Hamas need to be wiped out before any deals can happen

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

So you suggest that any country in the world would sit by and do nothing while it's neighbour fired rockets at it every day?It's the governments main job to defend its people.If france started firing rockets over the Channel would you expect Cameron to just do absolutely nothing?He would be overthrown very quickly.Hamas won't stop firing these rockets and they love it when Palestinian civilians are killed.They select the locations they do to create as many deaths as possible.Nothing can change while Hamas have any influence at all in that country.Britain or any other country would do the same as Israel are doing.They would destroy any sites where weapons are being stored and fired from to disable the agressive countries military capabilities.Hamas need to be wiped out before any deals can happen

A more accurate analogy would be a paramilitary undercover group within the UK/British isles itself which also uses rockets and guerilla style warfare, hides amongst the general public and does at times target civilians.. And we did have that with the IRA. But our government didn't indiscriminately bomb large parts of Northern Ireland or carry out such brutal action on the ground.

A stat I read somewhere else:

28 civilian Israeli deaths from Hamas rockets since 2001.

34 civilian British deaths in Northern Ireland conflict since 2001.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

A more accurate analogy would be a paramilitary undercover group within the UK/British isles itself which also uses rockets and guerilla style warfare, hides amongst the general public and does at times target civilians.. And we did have that with the IRA. But our government didn't indiscriminately bomb large parts of Northern Ireland or carry out such brutal action on the ground.

A stat I read somewhere else:

28 civilian Israeli deaths from Hamas rockets since 2001.

34 civilian British deaths in Northern Ireland conflict since 2001.

Is that all, how can they justify such a heavy handed approach?