[arista]

She has Now gone to a Female Prison.

Ref: Ch4HD News

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Liam-

When did I say any of that?

I said I didn't buy the whole 'woe is me' act, which I don't because she clearly didn't care for safety when she was out attacking people.

Nowhere did I mention anything to do with the prison situation, as it so happens, I don't think she should be in a male prison, so if you're done lecturing me over something I didn't say, I'd highly appreciate it.

Again, this has no relevance to the fact that she, like all prisoners, should not be knowingly put into dangerous situations by the courts. Putting a trans woman into a male prison is an obviously bad situation that's not going to end well for anyone. She either spends twelve weeks in Solitary and can sue for being put into Solitary for being trans or she can be placed in gen pop and be in danger and still be able to sue for endangerment. It's a bad decision all round and she has more than enough grounds to complain about it.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Who said they did?

All men look different. Moobs, no moobs, fat, thin, tats, no tats, track marks, hair, no hair etc etc.

Just because this inmate has had breast implants doesn't entitle her to different treatment.

That word alone is why she can't simply be thrown into a male prison, regardless of her genitalia. She is a woman and you would not throw a woman into an all male prison so why is this she case any different? It's not special treatment to put her into a women's prison, it's a basic right to ensure that prisoners aren't endangered by the court's decisions and they are meant to take the prisoner's circumstances into consideration which they obviously didn't do here.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That word alone is why she can't simply be thrown into a male prison, regardless of her genitalia. She is a woman and you would not throw a woman into an all male prison so why is this she case any different? It's not special treatment to put her into a women's prison, it's a basic right to ensure that prisoners aren't endangered by the court's decisions and they are meant to take the prisoner's circumstances into consideration which they obviously didn't do here.

She's not taken any legal steps or otherwise to becoming a woman?

If I'm sentenced, simply telling the courts "I'm a woman" doesn't entitle me to be sent to an all female prison. It doesn't work like that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

She committed the crime she deals with the punishment she doesn't get to choose what prison she goes too.

If her document say she is legally a man I'm sorry but the law has to treat her as a man until she provides more proof then just her looks that's how the law works.

Oh, so a threat of sexual violence is part of an acceptable punishment?

As for the second bolded part, this is false. The court is meant take the prisoner's circumstances into consideration when it comes to sentencing and where they'll serve their time. Her situation would mean she would obviously be at risk in a male prison and that wasn't considered by the court that sentenced her.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh, so a threat of sexual violence is part of an acceptable punishment?

As for the second bolded part, this is false. The court is meant take the prisoner's circumstances into consideration when it comes to sentencing and where they'll serve their time. Her situation would mean she would obviously be at risk in a male prison and that wasn't considered by the court that sentenced her.

Men are not allowed I'm female prison so if her documents set she is a man she can go in to that prison

[Dollface]

She should have been put in a female prison, I just can't even try and comprehend why anyone would think differently.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Men are not allowed I'm female prison so if her documents set she is a man she can go in to that prison

Hi Female Prison, nice to meet you.

You're just repeating yourself now and I already dealt with that point in my last post.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dollface

She should have been put in a female prison, I just can't even try and comprehend why anyone would think differently.

I can see her having issues in a womens prison as well so I don't think its fully addressed the problem with placing trans prisoners

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh, so a threat of sexual violence is part of an acceptable punishment?

As for the second bolded part, this is false. The court is meant take the prisoner's circumstances into consideration when it comes to sentencing and where they'll serve their time. Her situation would mean she would obviously be at risk in a male prison and that wasn't considered by the court that sentenced her.

There has been no threat of violence. It is an assumption that you are making. Even if it was the case, she will be looked after and kept safe, just like every other prisoner.

The court does not decide what prison the person goes to (male or female) that is the function of the prison service. It is for them to judge, they are in possession of ALL the facts after all and what special requirements are needed.

I can't help but feel many are jumping on some righteous bandwagon, when the facts are that every single prisoner is assessed before being allocated to any particular prison.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I can see her having issues in a womens prison as well so I don't think its fully addressed the problem with placing trans prisoners

Exactly. I can imagine there'll be quite a few complaints in the shower room.

[JoshBB]

The blatant transphobia in this thread shows exactly why she needs to be in a female prison

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The blatant transphobia in this thread shows exactly why she needs to be in a female prison

All I'm seeing is a debate on both sides of the argument. Where's the transphobia?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Hi Female Prison, nice to meet you.

You're just repeating yourself now and I already dealt with that point in my last post.

Shouldn't they be concerned on how the whole female prison will react and cope with it rather then 1 person?

If she wasn't such a vile thug then she wasn't in this position I'm really not her for certain criminal get treated better they are all there for a reason and will all be treated the same

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

All I'm seeing is a debate on both sides of the argument. Where's the transphobia?

The whole "she was born a man, therefore she goes in a male prison" argument clearly refuses to give transwomen the same rights as cisgender women for a start..

[Denver]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The blatant transphobia in this thread shows exactly why she needs to be in a female prison

All I see is people trying to make out its because she transgender and has been some sort of hate crime.

All its been is poor women going to a men prison where is the sympathy for the people she attacked?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The whole "she was born a man, therefore she goes in a male prison" argument clearly refuses to give transwomen the same rights as cisgender women for a start..

Have you read the article? I guess not as it clearly say legally she still a man

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The whole "she was born a man, therefore she goes in a male prison" argument clearly refuses to give transwomen the same rights as cisgender women for a start..

No, I think it's the fact that she's still legally and physically a man that's the problem, if she was a physical woman rather than a mental/psychological one, I don't think people would be defending the prison choice.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The whole "she was born a man, therefore she goes in a male prison" argument clearly refuses to give transwomen the same rights as cisgender women for a start..

Then you need to read up on the facts of the case posted in the OP before making assumptions.

Legally, she is still male and hasn't had gender reassignment surgery.

[DemolitionRed]

She's now been transferred to a female prison but according to a radio report, she was badly abused in the male prison.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Liam-

No, I think it's the fact that she's still legally and physically a man that's the problem, if she was a physical woman rather than a mental/psychological one, I don't think people would be defending the prison choice.

And how would you define a physical woman? A person with a vagina? And then they are a woman? I don't think you realise what this infers, which is that you must have a vagina to 'be a woman' which is completely untrue.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Then you need to read up on the facts of the case posted in the OP before making assumptions.

Legally, she is still male and hasn't had gender reassignment surgery.

Gender, by definition, has nothing to do with your genitals. Also you can be legally recognised as your preferred gender, and have your name/documents changed to reflect that, without having sex reassignment.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Gender, by definition, has nothing to do with your genitals. Also you can be legally recognised as your preferred gender, and have your name/documents changed to reflect that, without having sex reassignment.

I never said it did. I'm pointing out that legally AND physically, she hasn't actually changed her gender.

Simply saying "I'm a woman" doesn't entitle anyone to a place in a women's prison.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The blatant transphobia in this thread shows exactly why she needs to be in a female prison

This + everything Dezzy has said.

Surely we can look past what a piece of paper says and apply some common sense. She is at a high risk of sexual and mental abuse in a male prison. She isn't in a female prison. Above all else she's a human being. For those saying 'well she shouldn't have committed the crime' you're right she shouldn't, but she's still going to prison! And the whole 'what about the other women seeing a penis in the showers'... yes this 'trauma' is much worse than someone being raped

[DemolitionRed]

Well she managed to sort that whilst waiting for her appeal and now its sorted, all is good.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

And the whole 'what about the other women seeing a penis in the showers'... yes this 'trauma' is much worse than someone being raped

Try reading what I actually posted.

I never said it was comparable to rape, nor did I say it was traumatic.

I said that there'll no doubt be complaints from female prisoners as I can't imagine all of them would be comfortable sharing facilities with a person who is physically male.

In the simplest terms, moving her to a women's prison is likely to not bring an end to it.

[Denver]

OK I want all the vulnerable teens removed from prison because of the daily abuse they get.

Let's see how far this debate goes.