[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Explain how fining someone with nothing £1000 solves anything.
Unless you know it will end in a default, there will be a warrant for their arrest and they will end up in jail.... Job done.
Social cleansing.

Thats not this threads plan
that is a Zone trying other methods.

I would expect it will move the homeless and drunks away
from that area.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I find it strange that people like you and me can be so concerned and upset by this sort of policy whilst others think its a great idea.

I don't know about you but I've never been in a position of becoming or nearly becoming homeless but then I've got a great support network around me. I'd get bailed out long before things got bad.

I'd love to understand what makes people so heartless.

They haven't read my sig obv

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Thats not this threads plan
that is a Zone trying other methods.

I would expect it will move the homeless and drunks away
from that area.

Well that's a point, who would have thought your utilitarian vision would be more humanitarian in approach than our glorious leaders.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well that's a point, who would have thought your utilitarian vision would be more humanitarian in approach than our glorious leaders.

Yes Kizzy
My Own Vision
on this thread,
has a radical solution.
because all the homeless and drunks are looked after,
not pushed to the next City.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I find it strange that people like you and me can be so concerned and upset by this sort of policy whilst others think its a great idea.

I don't know about you but I've never been in a position of becoming or nearly becoming homeless but then I've got a great support network around me. I'd get bailed out long before things got bad.

I'd love to understand what makes people so heartless.

Here we go again; yet another post which indicts anyone with a different prespective of being 'heartless', 'uncaring', 'selfish' - and WRONG.

The 'Left' has neither a monopoly on the TRUTH, nor on genuinely CARING about other less fortunate people, and it is arrogant and offensive to suggest that those of us who do not glibly oversimplify complex social problems AND their solutions, are 'heartless'.

Why don't you start by responding to my long post on this subject?

I welcome your comments.

My problem with these over simplistic views is that they NEVER differentiate between those who are in GENUINE need of help with accomodation through being sociallly inept, and those who are BEYOND any type of help because they ABUSE EVERY single bit of help which is given to them.

It is the same with those in receipt of BENEFITS - HUGE numbers of people in receipt of diverse types of benefit are SCAMMING the system, and by so doing are actually INJURING the genuine needy by depriving them of the much needed EXTRA money and resources which would otherwise - eventually - be given to them to alleviate their suffering.

YET - to a man - the Left Wing on here NEVER even ADMIT that these scammers and accomodation abusers exist - or if they do, they mitigate both their numbers and the extent of their adverse impact upon the - already - spartan Welfare budget.

This 'scatter gun' methodology of peppering the threads with pro-Left, anti-Government rhetoric and hyperbole in NUMBERS does not wash with me.

As terrible as the phrase is - 'Beggars Can't Be Choosers' is as true now as it's always been, and if living in modern, clean bright homes as Arista proposes is NOT better than sleeping unwashed and cold on the streets, then I - for one would welcome YOUR solution.

Just for the record; I HAVE been homeless and I HAVE been poverty-stricken - and I mean REAL poverty.

Sometimes, it is impossible to help some people who do not WANT help or who do not VALUE help, or those who will NOT help themselves, and it is also NOT FAIR to continue to WASTE money and resources on these people, when there ARE so many GENUINE cases who not only DO WANT and NEED help, but who would APPRECIATE it.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Here we go again; yet another post which indicts anyone with a different prespective of being 'heartless', 'uncaring', 'selfish' - and WRONG.

The 'Left' has neither a monopoly on the TRUTH, nor on genuinely CARING about other less fortunate people, and it is arrogant and offensive to suggest that those of us who do not glibly oversimplify complex social problems AND their solutions, are 'heartless'.

Why don't you start by responding to my long post on this subject?

I welcome your comments.

My problem with these over simplistic views is that they NEVER differentiate between those who are in GENUINE need of help with accomodation through being sociallly inept, and those who are BEYOND any type of help because they ABUSE EVERY single bit of help which is given to them.

It is the same with those in receipt of BENEFITS - HUGE numbers of people in receipt of diverse types of benefit are SCAMMING the system, and by so doing are actually INJURING the genuine needy by depriving them of the much needed EXTRA money and resources which would otherwise - eventually - be given to them to alleviate their suffering.

YET - to a man - the Left Wing on here NEVER even ADMIT that these scammers and accomodation abusers exist - or if they do, they mitigate both their numbers and the extent of their adverse impact upon the - already - spartan Welfare budget.

This 'scatter gun' methodology of peppering the threads with pro-Left, anti-Government rhetoric and hyperbole in NUMBERS does not wash with me.

As terrible as the phrase is - 'Beggars Can't Be Choosers' is as true now as it's always been, and if living in modern, clean bright homes as Arista proposes is NOT better than sleeping unwashed and cold on the streets, then I - for one would welcome YOUR solution.

Just for the record; I HAVE been homeless and I HAVE been poverty-stricken - and I mean REAL poverty.

Sometimes, it is impossible to help some people who do not WANT help or who do not VALUE help, or those who will NOT help themselves, and it is also NOT FAIR to continue to WASTE money and resources on these people, when there ARE so many GENUINE cases who not only DO WANT and NEED help, but who would APPRECIATE it.

Great post Kirk!
You and many others on here are wising up and noticing that every left wing (whinge) post is really never actually about the subject matter at hand. It's really just another excuse to slag off this government that feeds and waters them. You'd think they'd be over losing the general election by now. I swear to you Kirk that if our Dave opened the flood gates on immigration tomorrow and let everyone in these left wingers (whingers) would still find something to complain about.

[joeysteele]

Actually as has been stated on programme after programme on TV when debating those on benefits, the real amount of scammers is estimated as being extremely small indeed and not 'huge' numbers at all.
hence why, once a freak case comes along great play is made of it in the media because there are really so few they can unearth.

Another great 'generalisation to belittle benefits claimants by claiming that, (without any supporting evidence whatsoever), that large numbers are scamming the system.

Any scammers should be caught and taken off benefits but making it sound like the problem is rife in the system is possibly,in my opinion,massively misleading.

Probably far more being wrongly refused benefits, having benefits cut or stopped altogether, occur more than those scamming the benefit system.

There is even welfare funding set aside for what should be claimed by some, who don't and maybe have no idea they are entitled to the extra benefits too, no one does anything to find those people who should have it however.

This removing the homeless from cities too,taking them away from towns to sheds and supposedly seeing to them there, stinks to me too.
It sounds more like prison camps than genuine help and support.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually as has been stated on programme after programme on TV when debating those on benefits, the real amount of scammers is estimated as being extremely small indeed and not 'huge' numbers at all.
hence why, once a freak case comes along great play is made of it in the media because there are really so few they can unearth.

Another great 'generalisation to belittle benefits claimants by claiming that, (without any supporting evidence whatsoever), that large numbers are scamming the system.

Any scammers should be caught and taken off benefits but making it sound like the problem is rife in the system is possibly,in my opinion,massively misleading.

Probably far more being wrongly refused benefits, having benefits cut or stopped altogether, occur more than those scamming the benefit system.

There is even welfare funding set aside for what should be claimed by some, who don't and maybe have no idea they are entitled to the extra benefits too, no one does anything to find those people who should have it however.

This removing the homeless from cities too,taking them away from towns to sheds and supposedly seeing to them there, stinks to me too.
It sounds more like prison camps than genuine help and support.

You are - once again confusing GENUINE claimants with SCAMMERS, and GENUINE people in GENUINE need of help with accommodation with those who do not DESERVE help and who would wreck Buckingham Palace if they were ascribed the tenancy - but only after NOT paying any rent there.

As predicted - you are also mitigating the numbers of scammers AND their adverse impact upon the budget meant for the GENUINE, and ignoring the points made in my earlier posts that these are not 'prison camps' or 'sheds'.

What is YOUR solution?

Finally: I WRITE from DIRECT EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE as well as from the knowledge gleaned from diverse sources, and if you think the 'scammer' or 'rogue tenant' problems are 'small' ones, then you need to get out more.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are - once again confusing GENUINE claimants with SCAMMERS, and GENUINE people in GENUINE need of help with accommodation with those who do nOt DESERVE help and who would wreck Buckingham Palace if they were ascribed the tenancy - but only after NOT paying any rent there.

As predicted - you are also mitigating the numbers of scammers AND their adverse impact upon the budget meant for the GENUINE

I WRITE from DIRECT EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE as well as from the knowledge gleaned from diverse sources, and if you think the 'scammer' or 'rogue tenant' problems are 'small' ones, then you need to get out more.

So do I.
Maybe to you those on the left talk rubbish and are to be derided,however the right does not have a monopoly on speaking from 'direct experience' alone either.

Not saying you don't make some strong valid points above as to such as rogue tenants and landlords,if you were also referring to them,often those people are costing the taxpayer a great amount of funding,I would agree to that.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Great post Kirk!
You and many others on here are wising up and noticing that every left wing (whinge) post is really never actually about the subject matter at hand. It's really just another excuse to slag off this government that feeds and waters them. You'd think they'd be over losing the general election by now. I swear to you Kirk that if our Dave opened the flood gates on immigration tomorrow and let everyone in these left wingers (whingers) would still find something to complain about.

Wait...what???

What is left wing about my post? Point out to me what I said that was left wing?

[DemolitionRed]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/02/homele...rough-5226481/

Kizzy, its good to see that a lot of towns and cities are going against this order.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]

So do I.
Maybe to you those on the left talk rubbish and are to be derided,however the right does not have a monopoly on speaking from 'direct experience' alone either.

Not saying you don't make some strong valid points above as to such as rogue tenants and landlords,if you were also referring to them,often those people are costing the taxpayer a great amount of funding,I would agree to that.

Yes, I agree Joey - Rogue Landlords and their accomplices WITHIN the Housing Benefits departments ARE costing this country HUGE amounts of money, and I am actually collating data for a seperate thread on this scandal.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/02/homele...rough-5226481/

Kizzy, its good to see that a lot of towns and cities are going against this order.

Fantastic news heard that 50 conservative MPs are none too happy about local cuts of 33% in rural areas either and are going against proposals.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, I agree Joey - Rogue Landlords and their accomplices WITHIN the Housing Benefits departments ARE costing this country HUGE amounts of money, and I am actually collating data for a seperate thread on this scandal.

Great stuff and good on you for doing so,I look forward to that one and being able to agree with you more on it too.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Great stuff and good on you for doing so,I look forward to that one and being able to agree with you more on it too.

Thank you Joey.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Fantastic news heard that 50 conservative MPs are none too happy about local cuts of 33% in rural areas either and are going against proposals.

This is good news.

[arista]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6861231.html

Undercover Sussex Police
have arrested Vagrants Begging

[The 1824 Vagrancy Act defines begging as a
person “placing himself or herself in any public place, street,
highway, court, or passage, to beg or gather alms” ]

[Sussex Police last year arrested more than 60 people
in Brighton for begging as part of an operation which uses
non-uniformed officers to monitor homeless
individuals and then move make arrests if they are
witnessed asking for money.]



No Fella
you should not be on our pavements

[arista]

Originally Posted by Smithy

you gonna put them all up in your house then arista?

No they Would Not Like me
Smithy

[Marsh.]

oh PISS OFF

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

oh PISS OFF

[Withano]

I thought it was against the rules to bump your own threads?

[Withano]

Even if its not, it looks needy and is very annoying.

[Scarlett.]

Most people would suggest something rational, like more homeless shelters, rather than some Nazi bull**** like rounding people off and shipping them off to "an island"

[arista]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Most people would suggest something rational, like more homeless shelters, rather than some Nazi bull**** like rounding people off and shipping them off to "an island"

They only go to the Falklands Islands
when they leave the old army base
and go back to a public street
illegal begging
3rd time they do it
they are sent there.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

oh PISS OFF

Yes Good Point Marsh
these Homeless have no place to use a proper bog.

So they go
in shop doorways
and home doorways near shops etc.